How do starters fail?

Post by **Chris_C** » 22 Mar 2006 12:43 pm

I've just got back from a round trip to Watford and Swindon, and have had to bump start Fake everytime apart from leaving my driveway. Tis all fun, until I realised I was looking for a petrol station at the top of a hill...

Anyway, I thought it was the alternator, as you turned teh key, and dash lights were on, turned it another notch, and you heard a solanoid click, and the dash lights went out. Easy, flat battery, probably the alternator.

Until this morning, I called out a breakdown dude (as I knew I needed petrol, and thought he might just tow me home) who tried boosting my battery from his plug thing in the back of the pickup, and still didn't work. He reckons starter, ok, I'll follow that, so drove to petrol station, left engine running whilst filled up, and drove home.

Before I turned it off, I came and got my multimeter, and did some battery checks. 14.3V when idling, dropping to 13.5V when the electric fan came on. 13ishV turned off, no current draw other then clock, and going down to 10V when I tried to crank (no actual movement of starter motor though) This is where the intresting bit happened, got smoke out of the general direction of the starter whilst doing this. So now I know that the alternator is good (according to those voltages) but am dubious as to a starter that smokes.

Breakdown dude reckons that the teeth have gone on the motor, meaning that is jamming against teh flywheel, which does fall into the picture, as that would explain (to me.. a bit) smoke from the starter. I just need to check I havn't fried the loom.

So... Do peeps agree its the starter? and if so, I think Dai mentioned chucking a 400 series one on, whats the benefits and does it bolts straight on dude?

Cheers guys, sorry for the long post

Post by **Chesh740R** » 22 Mar 2006 03:19 pm

Your alternator output readings are fine.

Sounds like a buggered Solenoid on the starter motor to me.

A good method of diagonising sticky solenoids is to hit the starter a few times with a big hammer and see if it unsticks and then starts the car.

Or my 480 used to suffer with a sticky solenoid and due to the horrible inaccessibilty when changing one, i would simply put the car in gear and rock it back and forward to unstick the starter and then it would perhaps start.

You could have stripped teeth on it, allowing it to jam and the motor then overheat and smoke.

SImply just take the unit out and check.

*Edit* I did have something strange on a 340 once. Everytime the key was turned to start it, all the electrics died, the fault was a badly corroded Earth Strap for the battery which then earths the engine and the chassis.

Probably not your cause, as it made no effect to the starting. but handy for anyone else.

Post by **Chris_C** » 22 Mar 2006 04:17 pm

I can here the solanoid going Chesh, which is why I originally thought is was the alternator, but the stripped teeth answer sounds like it may well be the cause. Right, off to unbolt it.

Post by **Chris_C** » 22 Mar 2006 05:47 pm

Just rung up friendly scrappy dude, £15+vat for a 3month gaurenteed starter. Hopefully I'll have Kar running by then

Post by **Chris_C** » 22 Mar 2006 09:30 pm

Ok, just for a check, 400 ones (1.7 I'm guessing) are the ones Dai suggested, a quick ebay reckons these are the same as 1.4 clios, thorugh to 2.0 lagunas, not that I'd ever doubt an ebay listing

Can anyone confirm?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/T194-NEW-STARTER- ... dZViewItem

Aside from that, does the normal 340 share starters with anything? I'm guessing at 5's, 19's, maybe 21's. The 1.4 and 1.7 are different iirc, which is why I'm doubting, although.. my housemates clio is a 1.4, and thats a different block to my 1.4. I'm might just have a look... Confirmation would still be great though

Annnnnnnd, if I used a 400 one, are the pinions the same (go on.. stupid question.. the stupid questions are the ones not asked, and knowing Dai, he chewed a new pinion out of some local slate... or maybe not

...)

EDIT: Just found this ebay linky, looks like the world is a goodun... copying list to piece of paper for tomorrows scrappy run

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/S154-Renault-11-1 ... dZViewItem

Post by **Chris_C** » 02 Apr 2006 07:57 pm

Right, if you ever have to replace a 300 1.7 starter, stick a 400 series one on, nuff said. If turns quick, is more efficient, half the size, and weight, and doesn't need the extra bracket. Can also manage about 5 minutes of cranking (with breaks...) if you have a dodgy spark.

Basically, they kick 300 starter a*se, just as Dai said!

Post by **pettaw** » 02 Apr 2006 08:04 pm

The replacements 1.7 starters turn the engine over at an alarmingly fast rate. Prolly about twice as fast as the original did.

Post by **volvonas** » 01 May 2006 10:20 am

hey i've had this problem for a while and i had to push it several times cause the starter wont work and i thought that that was the fuse problem but im not sure cause they all look good and now i think that i have to replace my starter am i right?

Post by **pettaw** » 01 May 2006 11:13 am

not necessarily. A couple of us have replaced starters only to find that wasn't the cause of our problems, and it was in fact dodgy connections, so check ALL connections to and from the starter and to and from the battery. If necessary run some extremely heavy duty cable along any suspect parts just to confirm they're OK.

Post by **classicswede** » 01 May 2006 08:23 pm

The other advantage of the 4 series starter is that it is also lighter.
The starters are very quick turning over and make a more modern car sound.