Advice on 2.3 Turbo 360 conversion!

[doubley_m]

Hi all!

I have a few questions for the experts on here regarding 2.3T conversions in 360's.

Me and some friends are planning to perform this conversion but just wanted to know exactly what car(s) to source the engine out of? I've heard mentions of B230FT Redblocks, and particular variants with strong/weak rods? I was just hoping someone can point me in the right direction to get an engine that will both fit into a 360 with the minimum of fuss while also providing good scope for power with the right turbo and map

Any advice/input is appreciated

P.S, based in the UK, so will only be able to source UK cars.

Cheers!

[Ride_on]

Plenty of threads here, but I do find them hard to find by the search facility, it doesn't like the word 'turbo'!

You want a 95ish 940 B230FT/FK (strong con rod and oil squirters), pretty bomb proof.

Main issues are flywheel/clutch matching up, and the right hand engine mount (custom job).

I am doing same job at the moment (well this year hopefully), have most parts, need to source Engine mount bracket and thinking others will need, may start a thread just for that, hoping I can use the 940 engine mount, then could get a few brackets made up and do a group buy.

Also you are swapping over the 360 smaller bits (sump/oil pump/water pump) onto the 940 engine

http://www.volvo300mania.com/forum-uk/v ... =13&t=5730

Have a look through the all the topics, plenty of material to read.

[doubley_m]

Thanks for the reply Funnily enough I had just finished reading your thread before I checked to see if anyone had replied to mine, forgot to check back for info, Doh! You're right about there being a lot of results when passing a search term incorporating the word 'turbo'!

We will be buying both cars so we should have most things we need

Current plans are to run ~300BHP at the start, to try and maintain the drivetrain! Later plans would involve fitting a stronger box and regular prop/diff arrangement, something I think has been done before? That way we intend to make the most of the engines internal strength with a bigger turbo

Management-wise, current plans are for Megasquirt, does anyone have and advice regarding this? Any particular parts we would need to source?

Also, if anyone has any info regarding the strength of a 940 drivetrain and how much work is required to fit it into the 360, advice would be greatly appreciated

Cheers!

[foggyjames]

I wouldn't plan on making 300bhp by throwing boost at it and expect the drivetrain to hang together. I wouldn't run much more than 15psi of boost...so I'd look at a relatively large turbo, a cam, and maybe some headwork in order to make as much peak power as possible whilst keeping the torque reasonable.

Tony has given you good advice there.

As for MS...there's a lot of info out there about MS-ing Volvos, but only a litle of it will be found here...and not much of it is 300-specific anyway. I'd read the guides on Turbobricks.

940 drivetrain...anything will fit, with enough work...but it won't be elegant. You'll need to cut the tunnel, etc. It's known to hold at least 400lbft in a 940, and you'll get away with more in the lighter 300-series shell...450-500lbft? That's getting towards being a serious redblock build...

cheers

James

[doubley_m]

Thanks for the reply James

After discussions with my mate, I think we've decided to junk the idea of starting with what we can do on the stock drivetrain and go straight for fitting a stronger box/diff setup and aim for more power

We have no worries about cutting the tunnel etc as we planned that from the outset and would be stripping the car down anyway but would we be able to basically rip the drivetrain off the donor 940 and bolt up the diff at the rear and get the prop customized to fit? Have many people done this before?

Once we have that sorted, what sort of power could we expect from a redblock with the 13mm conrods? I'm assuming headwork is a big necessity? We were hoping to essentially bolt a big turbo on and run decent boost, but not totally sure how far we can take the stock 13mm redblock motor.

Cheers for the input so far guys, all very useful!

[foggyjames]

It depends on your plans for the rear end. The 2/7/940 all have a live-axle rear end. The 240 is narrower than the 7/900s. Late 760 saloons (86+) and early 960 saloons (-94) have an IRS rear end with coil springs, while all later (95+) 960s use an IRS with a weird transverse leaf spring. The alternative is to mate a strong IRS diff (960? BMW? Sierra Cosworth?) to the standard 300 series axle tube...most likely having done a 4-link (plus panhard or watt linkage) conversion. If it's a drift car, I'm sure a live axle is no concern. If it's to be a race or fast-road car, some sort of IRS is probably going to be more useful.

The standard bottom end should be good to best part of 400lbft, depending on exactly how you achieve it. Getting that out of an 8v head without fairly radical headwork is going to involve a lot of boost. We're at 300lbft with a stock head with 20psi. Diminishing returns fast set in beyond that point with a stock head. The turbo is a small T3/T4 hybrid, and that's netting us around 300bhp. That's going to make a 360 shift pretty scarily quickly...it'll eat an E46 M3, and probably mess with an FQ360. I'd be getting pretty worried about suspension and brakes at that point.

A Holset is current making its way onto our engine, along with a mildly worked over head...then once built internals are in, the boost is getting wound up to best part of 2 Bar. 400bhp or so is the plan. This is in a 740, so not too much worry about the driveline. A wilder head would net bigger results, but that costs big money.

Have you considered going 16v?

cheers

James

[doubley_m]

Thanks James

16v had crossed my mind, but I wasn't totally sure what was involved in that conversion? I understand you can't just bolt a 16v lump and instead needed to make some kind of 16v/8v hybrid?

With regards to the rear-end, it would mainly be intended as a fast road car with possibly some drift/track action thrown in, so we'll have to address that, any advice from anyone who's done this to a 360 would be great

This info is all helping greately

[foggyjames]

I'm sure a 16v bottom end could be made to fit fairly easily, but most people use an 8v bottom end, cut valve reliefs in the pistons, then bolt the 16v head on. It's not so bad...the only real complication is the timing belt tensioner, but that can be dealt with via a number of techniques - most commonly using a tensioner made by a guy called Dick Prince from Australia - www.ovlov.net

Take a look at Adam's "340 (something) Evo 3" thread for stuff about the rear end. A true IRS would be better IMO (bolt in a BMW unit?), but it's a lot more work. I think Adam has struck the balance spot-on.

cheers

James

[Chris_C]

I'd expect Adam's axle to be a huge improvment on stop tbh, the main thing I can see breaking things is tramp. I'm getting it with my ~100whp (cock knows what it actually is, but it's not big numbers) and not a small amount either. My solution atm is to not gun it from standstill but that can only be temporary.

The fact the 300 as standard only has one anti tramp bar is a huge disadvantage, and I can see 4 linking being less work than customing a second anti tramp to fit in the long term.

Add to that the problems of just over twice my bhp and something major needs doing!

[foggyjames]

Likewise with the axle tramp. My 360 (with the carbs / cam) made 115whp, btw, so I suspect you'll be at 125-odd.

cheers

James

[volvodspec]

hmm with +/- 130whp i'm not getting it; mine has a double set of leafsprings so that's probably the solution for it. a set of hardened leafsprings can sort axle tramp too.

[SteveP]

I was going to say, I didn't notice or hear of this being a problem with Ali's 360 turbo either, with say perhaps 150whp?

[Chris_C]

That really surprises me, I could *just* get it on my 1.7 if I dropped the clutch in the wet. Leaf springs are always going to line up, the fact there is no fore/aft location of the axle on the passenger side is just rediculous

I do need slightly stiffer springs on my rear axle but I wouldn't want it hugely more tbh, though I can see how another layer of leafspring would help stop it.

[Fuse]

Double leaves (well 1.5 actually, because the extra ones are a bit thicker than stock but not as long), red Konis and I don't experience any axle tramp. If by axle tramp we are talking about when wheel bounces up and down when launching the vechicle.

This seems to be mostly problem with the stock suspension setup when you've got 100-150hp. SJS has stock springs and oil shocks at the rear with a sway bar and no axle tramp what so ever. Though he has 408hp/664Nm (dyno figures http://www.debil.fi/dynot/340DL.pdf) so street tires just light up if he launhes the car with full throttle.. no time for wheels to bounce.

Suspension geometry is not as straight forward as you might think.. If you want maximum launch friction, for example to 1/4 mile run, you don't want to stiffen your rear suspension, most 200-series quartermilers have very archaic rear suspension setup, swaybars removed etc... for maximum traction during the launch. Then again for a circuit racer that doesn't work because you want to minimize the bodyroll and that means you'll have to sacrifice the launch traction by stiffening up the rear suspension. In a street car it's usually a combination/balance situation between those two.

About the diff/gearbox issue, SJS got a bit similiar setup as Peter Schmidt had in his 360.

SJS has mated a 300-series torque tube with ZF gearbox and BMW diff.

http://s122.photobucket.com/albums/o253 ... 009739.jpg

He had some problems with the flanges between the gearbox and diff but the reason for those breaking was traced back to the bracing of the whole unit. He added more bracing and it has been working great.

[Chris_C]

It's not the axle going up and doing thats the problem, the anti tramp bar won't stop that. The axle moves forward in the wheel arch, closer to the door, and rotates about the diff. The thump you feel in the car is the tyre starting to go against the direction of travel and skidding back to where it should be.

There is a section in the 'Bullit' chase that you can see the Mustang doing it.