B200/B230 heads

Post by **Carl** » 10 Dec 2005 08:59 pm

Fioner was bellowing out a lot of white smoke this morning - I'm kinda hoping its just moisture in the exhuast as she's been sat in my very damp garage for a couple of weeks now, but I have a horrible feeling it could be a knackered head gasket, and if it is, that seems like a good time for some engine upgrades, as she's a bit slow for my liking!

So..... are all the B200/B230 heads interchangeable? Are there any that are considered better than others - bigger valvles, improved flow etc etc?

As I understand it, the V-cam is the most aggressive cam Volvo did, which cars did this come in? Also is there anyone you can buy after market cams from?

Post by **340GLT** » 10 Dec 2005 09:19 pm

I'm not too good with the old B200's etc but i believe the head to use is the 531 B230 head found on 740turbos. As for the cam, i'm not sure to be honest mate but i think 940s!!
Cheers Adam

Post by **SteveP** » 10 Dec 2005 09:23 pm

I believe no-one is certain a 531 head will fit 'just like that' onto a B200? I dunno..

Post by **classicswede** » 11 Dec 2005 12:53 am

It will fit I'm sure I've done it on a 240.

Post by **volvo300** » 11 Dec 2005 03:32 pm

Hi Carl.

You can buy any head from a B200/B230, and I'm sure that a 530 haed is more than fine for your B200 engine. With a B200 you can't really tell the difference between a 530 and a 531 head (the B200 doesn't have enough displacement).

As for the cams:
- The V-cam is a good cam but not the most aggressive cam Volvo did. That is the H-cam (similar to the K-cam).

I have a Volvo 360 GLT with a B230 engine, K-cam and megasquirt.
I had a A-cam before (good low end tourqe) and switched to the K-cam (good upper end tourqe). I think that the V-cam should be somewhere in the mittle of these two cam profiles.

You can see my car on: http://www.volvo300.dk

Regards:
Peter

Post by **Carl** » 11 Dec 2005 04:18 pm

Thanks for the info guys - very useful indeed!

Luckily Fioner is OK. Sitting in a damp garage for too long obviously left a lot of moisture in the exhuast. After about 30mins of idling she cleared herself out. Phew! The engine upgrade is still going ahead, but just not so soon. Will give me time to get hold of the bits I need!

Post by **foggyjames** » 11 Dec 2005 07:50 pm

Redblocks don't blow HGs easily...so it's unlikely.

The V cam is the hottest cam that you can guarantee you'll be able to find on any scrapyard visit. Ks and Hs are hotter, but rare.

Regarding 8v heads, there are 3 available for the later engines - B200 530, B230 530 (with a bigger combustion chamber) and B230 531. I wouldn't bother with a 'bigger' 8v head on a B200, as they share valve sizes with the 2.3. Only the port size and profile is different on the 531 vs 530. The concerns regarding fitment is that because the 2.3 heads' combustion chamber is larger, you might have part of the deck exposed, and the combustion chamber might not be sealed by the fire ring, leading to premature HG failure. Also, a B230 530 head will lower the compression ratio significantly. We're not sure of the effect of a 531 - it's smaller than a B230 530, but might be bigger than a B200 530. All in all, I'd say it's not worth the risk on a B200.

Getting the air in and out of the head is the biggie - especially in. I think my engine has demonstrated that one, making significantly more power and torque than a brand new stock B200E, with only a change of cam, and the big carbs. If I fitted an e-fan, and a performance exhaust manifold and exhaust, I'm sure I'd be looking at over 150bhp at the crank.

cheers

James

Post by **Carl** » 11 Dec 2005 08:02 pm

The other GLT HG failed (didnt go bang as such, just weeped coolant a bit). I thought it would be unlikely, but I was late and after seeing all the water coming out I panicked, put it away and took the other car and then worried about it all day.

Interesting stuff re the cams. Reckon I'll try and find a V cam - which cars should I be looking at?

The other thing I've been looking at today is porting and polishing. There's a guy I've got a lot of respect for who I'd like to do it, but a full on overall is ~£450, so I'm gonna have to start saving! In the meantime I'm planning to sort the exhuast out in the new year and hopefully get rid of the viscous fan.

Unfortunately road rally regs wont let me run twin carbs, so I'm stuck with the standard injection. May look into playing with that too in the distant future.

The list of stuff to do seems to be growing and growing!! Just ordered some rear dampers which will hopefully get done over Xmas, along with the gauges.

Post by **foggyjames** » 11 Dec 2005 08:24 pm

Totally not worth £450...your money will be better spent elsewhere...or even just saved. £450 would probably get you a working 16v or turbo setup...as a point of reference!

When I said the intake side, I didn't necessarily mean you had to fit twin carbs. A larger throttle body, for example, would be a very good start, and rather hard to detect.

V cam came in...740 non-turbo injection (B200E and B230E), and some injection 240s. I'm not entirely clear on which 240s, so a bit of experimentation is called for. It may even be all injection ones (like 740s).

cheers

James

Post by **Carl** » 11 Dec 2005 08:51 pm

That £450 would be for a fully worked head virtually to race spec. Trust me, this guy is an absolute legend and really knows his stuff! Turbo set up is not an option. 16v is option though, but arent they really difficult to get hold of?

Boring out the standard throttle body is something else that I thought about too. Unless there are any bolt on ones from B230s that are a bit bigger.

Of course all of this depends on money, so its probably more likely I'll end up with a K&N filter and a louder exhuast and that's it

Post by **classicswede** » 11 Dec 2005 09:47 pm

I think you will find the throttle body is the same as the 2.3 and the V6. The problem with air flow is caused by all the bends in the manifold.
What many ppl fail to understand when tuning an engine is it only really pulls air for one cylinder at a time.
There are some very good books that look at other engines but all the prinipals are the same.
You could do a little work on the head yourself armed with a bit of the correct knowlege.
One important thing to note POLISHING does NOTHING for performance only gives POOR economy.
The thing with a head is to remove obstructions and leave a fine ground finish not a smoth polished one. The poishing causes problems with A/F mix.

Post by **Carl** » 11 Dec 2005 10:09 pm

I understand the air thing, hence 4 throttle bodies would be the ideal option. I've seen it done on a few cars before, but thats a bit out of my wallet's league!!
Our MR2 uses a really clever yet simple throttle body design, where it esssentially has 8 inlet tracts, but only 4 are open below 4500rpm which gives a good amount of low down torque, but after that they all open up allowing the engine to breath and rev to almost 8000rpm. Gives you a nice kick when you give it some welly! It would be cool if you could apapt it for a Volvo lump but, again cost would be an issue.

Didnt really know much about polishing, its just a term that's chucked around, but that's interesting to know!

Post by **foggyjames** » 11 Dec 2005 10:34 pm

I'm curious why 16v is an option, yet turbo isn't Carl? The B200 16v head has to come from Italy (unless you try using a B230 one), and they are out there...not common, but not that rare either. Of course the 'best value' subtle upgrade would be to sneakily drop a B230F / FB in

Alternatively, you could do a serious performance build-up on the B200 - the sort of thing that I ought to do in order to get the best out of my current setup. Make it rev to 8 grand, and make the head flow to match...you get the idea. "Bolt-ons" (with the possible exception of a turbo) are simply paying lip-service to how underpowered the 360s are (as a performance car). You might well get to 150bhp with head and manifold work....but as I've found, it'll still only run a mid 16 1/4 mile (which I would have run if I'd had traction). You're not starting to get 'fast' until you're under 15 seconds.

Basically, I think that £450 for a top quality head job will be wasted, as the weaknesses in a B200 are elsewhere. If you can't touch the intake, don't bother with the head.

classicswede wrote:I think you will find the throttle body is the same as the 2.3 and the V6.

I'm sure you're right, but that doesn't mean it's right

For example, the V6 is cammed very high (it makes peak torque at 5000 or something?!), but it makes relatively little power, suggesting to me that the peak flow is restricted - and a quick plumbing into Dyno2003 (engine simulator) suggested that head flow wasn't the problem. Putting a 960 (or larger) throttle body on a B230 is quite a common upgrade, although obviously not on its own.

I've not looked at that manifold, but I'm sure there are improvements to be made, and I'm sure you're right - straightening it out a fair bit is probably very important.

cheers

James

Post by **Carl** » 12 Dec 2005 12:00 am

Road rally regs say no turbos. However engine tranplants can be done as long as they are normally aspirated, no more than 4 cylinders and retain the manufacturers original injection system. So I can use any B200/B230 as long as its normally aspirated and retians the original fuel system, but the turbo lumps and 6 cylinder lumps are a no-go.

Basically the 360 engine is too lazy for my liking. I've had a few quickish cars since my last one, and now it just feels a bit slow so I want to make it a bit livelier. But as you say £450 is a lot to spend. Maybe I should just get my angle grinder and dremmel out

Post by **jtbo** » 12 Dec 2005 12:53 am

Polishing is one funny thing.

With carbs, you should never polish intake from head and either not from intake manifold, that is because fuel will attach to inside walls (sorry don't know english word) Well that will cause problems with part throttle area and also does not help with full throttle.

Fuel injection is another story.

You can get few % better airflow if you polish intake manifold to mirror like, but intake from head should not be done as mirror like, leave it bit rough instead, that is again because of fuel getting attached to inner walls. However you can polish some amount, much smoother than with carb setup, because fuel is practically injected to intake valve.

I don't know exact term of air rotating and slowing air flow because of intake walls are not polished (swirling air?) but it reduces some air flow, you can think that size of intake manifold runner is slightly reduced because there is air moving wrong way at sides.

So all I'm trying to say is that some beliefs of polishing are bit old, they come from carburettor time, many very top race pro's are still spreading this old carb based information.

Sorry that I'm bit unclear, I'm not quite enough good at english to explain this thing properly

But please ask if something was oddly said or leaves questions unanswered, I try to answer best I can.