Engine swap procedure help needed!!!

[Bossie]

A short introduction:
I am a V3C member, planning a engine swap but since eingine swap procedures are in the Netherlands not as common as in the UK I do need some help.

I'm going to swap my B200E for a B200ft.
What will I have toc change, wich problems will I run into?
What about electrics? ECU, the turbo engine is on motronic, mine isn't....
Wich parts do I need to swap?

[Bossie]

anyone?

[pettaw]

Fuse is the man for this answer.....but I would think you need to swap everything, including all the ECU too. There might be some stuff that needs a little modification to fit inside the engine bay. Things that spring to mind that might need custom work are the exhaust system, including the manifold and the turbo positioning.

[classicswede]

Again Fuse is the man to answer this one.

You will need to change the obvious like the sump and oil pump and other bolt on bits.

From what i have read there are a few different possible ways of fitting the turbo as there are problems with clearance on the engine mount.

When we fitted a 760turbo engine into our 240 we used all the fuel managment from the 7. On the 360 this may not be the case.

Do a search - there has been a lot posted on this topic

[Bossie]

I have been searching on ths forum for quite some time but ecu and loom is still not clear to me... I'll better contact fuse...

[Fuse]

Hello, I see you sent a private message but I'll answer here so everyone who's interested can see it.

Well about electric stuff, if you want to use the Motronic, you need the whole ECU and the wiring loom and also all the necesary sensors from the turbo engine.

From the B200E you'll need an oilpump and the oilsump. Also flywheel would be needed from 360 engine, because I've heard/seen that there are some clearance issues with the bellhousing of the 300-series and the flywheel of the bigger Volvo.. etc... But if you are taking the Motronic ecu, you cant use the B200E flywheel because it has different trigger wheel for ignition, Motronic also controls ignition so it needs it's own flywheel. There are solutions for this though, there's a faq for the procedure what needs to be done, but it is in Swedish.. My Swedish is a bit rusty so I will translate it later when I'm sure about the specs.. There are the pics though

http://www.300power.com/forum/index.php ... readid=914

It seems he has ground off some stuff from the bellhousing to clear the B230FT pressure plate bolts and also modified the clutch fork somehow.. I'll post more details when I'm sure what he has done, I don't want to give any false information..

It's much easier if you are running a programmable engine managment such as Megasquirt, Haltech or similiar, because then you can just use B200E flywheel and use a custom crank trigger wheel for pickup sensor etc...

But the Motronic flywheel pickup can be made to work also.

Clutch in 360 will handle something from 180 to 200hp untill it starts to slip, depenging of the use and how worn the clutch is (if it's old disc it can slip with much less power) as it is the same size as in bigger NA Volvos but if you want a stronger clutch, there are some 228mm sintered paddle clutches from VW Golf and Opel which will fit in 360.

In the link above guy has used a bigger Volvo clutch (from a car with M90 gearbox) which has a center part of a B200E clutch so it will fit in. This is also a one option.

Sachs also sells sintered 210mmm paddle clutches for 300-series but there have been some fitting issues in B14 models, so I recommend to make sure the clutch will fit in.

Engine mount needs to be modified or you need a custom manifold, or an adapter for the end of the stock turbo manifold, to get room for the wastegate. Turbo it self would fit in without mods but oil return and the wastegate are in the way.

I've not done this kind of swap my self, my turbo engine is a turboed B200E, so I don't have info about the every small detail, but I know people who have done this kind of swaps so I can ask more detailed info and post here. Basically there's no other major work involved except the flywheel if you want to use the Motronic and if you need a stronger clutch it needs some tinkering. But nothing which couldn't be done fore sure.

[Ali]

Hmmm damn! I've got a chipped jetronic ecu and I was going to go to the scrapyard today to get the wiring loom and ignition system. I'm guessing that means I can't use the ignition ecu from the donor car without modifying the flywheel and there's no way im taking that apart I guess there's no way of running the fuel ecu and retaining the original b200e renix? Also on the B200ft I got my turbo, etc from the oil feed was a solid metal pipe that bolted to the block and the oil return looked like it went into the block too, does anyone know if this would be possible on the B200e (can't see on the car as the manifold is in the way)

[Bossie]

Fuse, Thank you very much for the fast reply!!!

I think this will be a project for a longer term, I will get the engine probably friday.
I am thinking about MS, but that is quite an investment, over here a ready to use unit wil cost you 500 Euro, because I'm a student and have only got a weekend job to pay for my school and hobbies, wich means my 360.
During the winter I can adapt and transfer the components from a B200 to the T engine and sort out things like clutch an flywheel etc etc.
Will using MS also mean that the wiring job be a lot easier?
The engine comes out a 740 from 88', does this mean the engine has the weaker conrods everyone over here talks about?
Thank yoy very much for helping, I'm looking forward to read some more.....

[Fuse]

Hmmm damn! I've got a chipped jetronic ecu and I was going to go to the scrapyard today to get the wiring loom and ignition system. I'm guessing that means I can't use the ignition ecu from the donor car without modifying the flywheel and there's no way im taking that apart I guess there's no way of running the fuel ecu and retaining the original b200e renix? Also on the B200ft I got my turbo, etc from the oil feed was a solid metal pipe that bolted to the block and the oil return looked like it went into the block too, does anyone know if this would be possible on the B200e (can't see on the car as the manifold is in the way)

On LH-Jetronic ignition and fuel are separate, unlike Motronic, but they communicate with eachother so I guess it needs both from the donor car.. I'm not 100% sure though. I can check this out.

There's a source near water pump for oil feed, in B200E it's blocked with allen fitting if I remember correctly. Oil feed can also be taken from stock oil pressure sensor with t-fitting or banjo. It's like that in original R-Sport kit too.

Oil return in stock turbo is sealed with o-ring against the block. There's just a hole in the block and pipe from the turbo is sealed against the block with the o-ring.

There's a place for oil return on B200E block also but it's not drilled open. Flat surface there. In mine the flat spot has been drilled open and there's a hose fitting screwed on to the block, first part of the oil return pipe is stock and after that there's just a hose fitted with clamps on to the stock pipe and on to the hose fitting on the block.

Easier way is to run the oil return on to the top of the oilpan, original R-Sport kit also had return line to the oil pan. In 300-series the oil pan is aluminium of course so aluminium welding is needed.

Pic of the return pipe of the R-Sport kit oilpan http://ex.parcomp.com/syren/volvo/turbo ... /paluu.jpg

Fuse, Thank you very much for the fast reply!!!

Will using MS also mean that the wiring job be a lot easier?
The engine comes out a 740 from 88', does this mean the engine has the weaker conrods everyone over here talks about?
Thank yoy very much for helping, I'm looking forward to read some more.....

No problem, glad to help! Well with MS you make your own wiring loom so it's simplier in a way because you know from the start what's supposed go where etc...

But if you can get the complete wiring loom from the B200FT it's also pretty much plug and play stuff, especially if you have the wiring diagrams for the both engines.

-88 B200FT has the weaker con rods, stronger rods came in 89/90, though the weaker rods will handle also about 250hp in normal street use, so those are not _so_ weak either.

[Ali]

Hmm yeah that was my worry, I didn't really want to have to remove and weld the oilpan but I guess thats going to be the best option. I'm really not sure what to do then, I have the jetronic ecu and turbo injectors but no wiring loom, sensors or ignition ecu The car doesn't need to be economical or too practical (doesn't have to run perfect off boost etc, as long as it doesnt do damage) but i'm not too keen on bodging the turbo on LE-jet. Something like your setup would do Fuse with the 5th injector, could sell the superchipped ecu to fund it but wouldn't know where to buy the extra control module or how to set it up

edit: also that'd be great if you could find out if both ecu's are required to communicate with each other, does the ignition not retard when on boost though which renix won't do? Yours is still on renix though so I find it all confusing!

[Fuse]

Renix ignition curve (on 2l models) isn't too much for modest boost levels so it works at least below 1bar. This one guy here is running twin Dellortos and 0.8bar of boost and ignition is stock Renix from 360 and it works fine. He also checked the advances with strobo light and they looked good for turbo appilication.

Though in my GLT the hole in the bellhousing has been drilled more wider and crank sensor has been moved a bit to get advance a bit lower.

In my father's GL there's no visible modifications, except the vacuum line is disconnected.

Also I've heard some rumours that some Renix models would give slight retard under pressure, but those are just rumours, I have no facts..

I'll check what's the situation with LH-Jetronic igniton and fueling.

[Ali]

Ah thats good news then, i'd only be running low boost levels anyway so shouldn't be a problem. As long as the fuel computer will work without the need to communicate with the ignition computer I should be sorted

[Fuse]

Yeah and if LH-Jet works without it's own ignition, you can also easily swap Renix to ignition from 240 Turbo. It's not a major job and it gives a better curve for turbo applications, because 240 Turbo has a distributor which retards ignition under boost. 240 Turbo ignition parts are kinda cheap also.

[Ali]

No 240 turbo's over here guess 740s use the same though?

[classicswede]

Only early 700 turbos had the side mounted dizzy on the silver top engines. The black tops have a dizzy on the rear.