Hey. Since this is my firs post, first i think I should give a brief introduction about myself. 28 yo, from Estonia, now studing in Finland and i have acted as a hobbydriver in a standard-class rallyes in Estonia (with Mazda 323, VW Golf and Moskvitch 2140). Now moving forward and next year you'll find me in co-driver seat in nice volvo 340 .
My driver and I bought half-prepped rally car from finland, where she competed some drift events last year. She looks like this: http://www.city.ee/~tom/vulva/

But now into a subject..
We have tried it and it looks a bit weak in the lower revs especially with 14" tarmac tyres and in longer straights. If we keep te revs up to 6500 it acts pretty ok, but we both feel that we should make something with the engine and gearbox (and probably with rear diff too).

But first, the engine. I know, that the easiest way is to find a turbo engine, but in national rally laws we go automatically with turbo engine the higher class - so, sadly turbo is not a option.

Now has she 2.0 injection engine from 940 and there is my question? Is possible to tune that 2.0 engine with normal amount of $$$ somewhere about 160..180hp? If it is, then what we should do first?
In future we think for buying a B23 n/a engine and try to reach/ dream to somewhere 200hp range (what should be the power limit of gearbox), have you got some hints?

Regards,

First step has got to be let the engine breath. The exhaust wants changing for a gigger bore free flow system. Done right this will allow the engine to rev well. The other cheep mod is to swap the cam for a K cam.

Going beyond that then you need to start spending money. In that case you will be better going strait to the 2.3

Hi and welcome to the forum!

I've seen your car before, a long time ago when it wasn't a rally spec car. I always wondered what has happened to car. Looks good!

Yeah 160hp to 180 is definately possible from 2l also but it takes some cash. Key word is the head work. That's where the power lies. Get 531 head and take it to some good and known machine shop/guy who knows his business. Tell him what kind of engine you are building and your settled with that. This is the most costly part also, bigger valves, porting etc... are not cheap usually, but good head work is the key to power.

Then some rods which can handle the revs and get all rotating parts lightened and balanced. And also proper bolts for flywheel, it's not a pretty sight when a flywheel comes loose at +7000rpm.

And of course exhaust manifold, intake etc... needs to be sorted. Tubular exhaust manifold and some 45-50 side draft carbs or good programmable injection. I don't know the regulations about engine managment though, lot's of carbs in rally scene, though it could be a reliability thing also.

Though I personally might not put all that work in B200, I would do the cheap mods classicswede presented above and then switch to 2.3l (which can be easilly upgraded to 2.5, many rally cross cars are 2.8 too but that's a lot more costy) because there's not much point putting all that money in B200 block.


About the drivetrain, gearbox isn't the most weakest part, first goes the diff, especially if it doesn't have any kind of locker it goes very fast in hard use.. And as known lockers (except welded diff) are very rare for 300-series.

You can get new gearings and strengthened racing boxes from SSF-Pyörä OY, but those are not cheap. http://www.ssf-pyora.fi/

Clamps which connect the torque tube on to the gearbox are also one weak point, those might get loose or snap in harder use, but those can be strengthened also.

Some people have also adapted the diff from 240 on to 300-series but that's not so simple job, if you want to keep the box at the back. You need to remove the half shaft tubes and make proper flanges for all the joints etc...

There's one modified diff like that for sale at nettiauto.com but the price is staggering. There's also a suitable Getrag box to go with that diff and also suitable propshaft and Porsche half shafts. Well actually there's also a former Group-A 360 for sale also, same guy who is selling the drivetrain parts..

http://www.nettiauto.com/viewVehicle.php?id_car=820601
http://www.nettiauto.com/viewVehicle.php?id_car=939128
http://www.nettiauto.com/viewVehicle.php?id_car=990564

That car had gearbox in back like the original one, it had Porsche half shafts and M40 clutch. Complete drivetrain package would be 1700€. Though that kind of drivetrain would be bulletproof.

Damn.. If I would have the cash, I would buy that package my self.. It would be a complete set.

How do they get them out to 2.8?

I'm not sure about all the different ways, but many of the 2.8l are so called "R-blocks." Those are blocks which Volvo made at some point when they thought about making Penta marine engines by increasing the bore. Those "R-blocks" can handle bore over 100mm.

Though as known they ended up with making a stroker engine, instead of increasing the bore, so these "R-blocks" were sold. Most were bought by rally cross teams and engine builders in Sweden.

Though I think that not all 2.8l are "R-blocks" so there must be other ways too, all I know is that 2.8 is never cheap..

Of course there are also Sten Parner aluminium blocks, but those aren't anymore near stock.. And I don't know if those are produced and developed anymore. He made aluminium blocks up to 4l. Starts to be kinda weird for 4-cylinder... I don't know what of these parner blocks exist and what sizes he produced, but stuff like that are always quite experimental.

Fuse wrote:Hi and welcome to the forum!


Yeah 160hp to 180 is definately possible from 2l also but it takes some cash. Key word is the head work. That's where the power lies. Get 531 head and take it to some good and known machine shop/guy who knows his business. Tell him what kind of engine you are building and your settled with that. This is the most costly part also, bigger valves, porting etc... are not cheap usually, but good head work is the key to power.

About the drivetrain, gearbox isn't the most weakest part, first goes the diff, especially if it doesn't have any kind of locker it goes very fast in hard use.. And as known lockers (except welded diff) are very rare for 300-series.



There's one modified diff like that for sale at nettivaraosa.com but the price is staggering 1000€. There's also a suitable Getrag box to go with that diff. Well there's also an former Group-A 360 for sale also, same guy who is selling the drivetrain parts..

Thanks for your reply.
Yes, i went and looked that group A car also ( about year back or something like that), but 10k eur price seemed to me a bit overpriced..

And now questions - what is 531 head and where i can buy that
Btw, this car has some kind of lsd - and not kemmpi-lukku:P, as the say. Havent looked inside yet, but if both rear wheels are up , they move in same direction and they also have a bit of free movements separately (what is out of question if we talk about 'welded-diff).

Can you say me approx price range for bulding ~200hp B23 engine, in finnish shop, if i have standard engine?

If you know people who work cheap, it doesn't have to be that expensive. If yoy can do a lot yourself you can save some money but getting 200 hp from a b230e/fb/k or something like that will mean lots of work. Head, manifolf inlet and exhaust, exhaust, cam, carbs or different ecu and injectors, maybe even something like megasquirt= stand alone motormanagement.
a b234 has something like +-160 hp, maybe that would be the best base, but these engines are rare compared to the 8 v engines...

Tore et vähemalt mõnedele eestlatele meeldib Volvo 300 seeria!

2,8l redblock based race engine:


http://www.janiervast.com/kuvat/index.p ... volvo/evo/

I did save pics from finnish Volvo forum

That is terrifying bore for a redblock...I'd be very surprised if it started as a standard block...although having said that, you might get away with it NA. To be fair, displacement makes relatively little difference on a race-spec boosted motor, so that's probably how it happens. Usually you go with longer stroke if you want to get above about 2.6L. SPM sell a 96mm stroke crank IIRC...that's 16mm up on standard.

+1 for remembering that car. I also wondered what happened to it!

I'd drop a B23/B230 in, and take it from there. Choosing the right version will give you a significant upgrade in itself. Unless you specifically want to keep the B200, I think it's a no-brainer.

cheers

James

2.8 is massive for a 4 cyl engine - I would have though over about 2.5 then its time to go 6 cyl.


As to tunning the 2ltr I would only do the exhaust and set it up ready for the 2.3. You could get the head wrok done and bolt the head onto the 2.3 when you are ready to drop it in.

Putting the 2.3 in is the chepest quickest way to more power.

the theory being BIG torque - the big bang theory from huge cylinders .

its only really used in motorsport , since its not thermally efficient , rallycross and grasstracking are the main recipients .

still a 2.8 4 cyl that can rev past 7500 pm is pretty impressive

BMW evos used to rev past 9krpm for british tarmac rallys .wasnt unusual to see 11krpm recorded as a peak .

Thanks for all replies. Now searching B23 engine in estonia.

In the meantime, we made all the small things - what as usually take most of the time.
And maiden run is done on track - as a safety car in Juuru rallysprint. Car lasted.. and despite totally wrong tyre choice, we at least got some feedback and felt a little bit more comfortable in the car afterwards.
If anybody interested, some pictures and 1 video about building and Juuru rallysprint is found in http://www.exillery.net/volvo/