Variomatic 340 - do you think my clutch has gone?

[Bjorn Belter]

Hello.
I often visit this site but have never got around to registering until now.
Anyway, a quick question that I think I know the answer to but would appreciate any confirmation/thoughts.

Just acquired a 340 Variomatic which is in pretty good shape for its age (1985) It needed saving having been left at a part exchange dealer clearout auction.

However, I'm pretty sure the clutch has well and truly had it. The reason I think this is because the car will not move from standstill until the engine is at max revs. Its just like someone in a manual car who can't get the clutchbite point right when parking! I.e. sceaming engine but hardly moving at all.

Once on the move, the transmission seems to be "changing up and down" ok.

Is it fair to assume that the clutch is worn out?
Another clue is that the car has done about 50,000 miles in its 25 years, and has a towbar, which implies to me that the previous owner of 24 years only used it for short stop start trips and towed something, which must have put considerable strain on the system.

I have driven DAFs and Vario Volvos over the years so am aware of the unique features.

And i've decided that I want to get this 340 up and running nicely and keep it original etc.

Thanks!

[petefarrell360]

Hi, just a quick reply to welcome you along, glad you've joined V3M now!

It shouldn't be reaching maximum revs before anymovement is evident. I'd imagine this is the clutch end of things as opposed to being the belts. It's worth checking both belts are there and appear tight though. I'd imagine the clearances are out on the clutch, it should from memory engage at 1100 rpm, if you have a rev gauge fitted it'll be nice and easy to see, if not, not a huge amount over the correct idle speed.

If it's never been adjusted, the clutch does tend to give up somewhere after 38,000 miles! Less if some muppets are let loose around it, as in my case 10500 miles, an MOT station without a clue managed to wear the clutch out.

One major rule to remember is to never rev a CVT in park, that will instantly decrease the life of things!

Anyway there are shims that space the clutch correctly, the tolerances are in the green books, (reference section for green books on this forum now you've joined) and the shims are still available from Volvo as far as I know. Check the clearances as explained, then see what shims are required. It may be possible to change the shims and everything will work as it should, if not, if the clutch is too badly worn you'll need a CVT clutch kit. It's not a massively difficult job if you follow the green book guide. A badly adjusted CVT clutch will not last long at all, so it's best to get it sorted asap!

Good luck and keep us posted.

Pete

[mac]

Hi Bjorn,

Can't add a great deal to Pete's advice (Hi Meester Farrell) - but one extra thing to look at is the clutch disengage servo device - this is a vacuum servo that delays clutch engagement until a much higher engine speed (to allow clutch engagement during choke/fast idle conditions). This system operates via a gearlever switch and should only work during gearlever movement/clutch engagement.

If this system is "stuck on" it will give the impression of a badly slipping clutch. (pull vacuum pipe off black servo on L/H side of clutch housing and see if it makes a difference.

Also look in the technical section of this site at my CVT article - and all will be explained. (or PM me your address and I can send you a copy)

Mac.

[Bjorn Belter]

Hello again,

thanks for the replies.

The belts are definitely there (not checked them properly yet) and the car does eventually start to move but it's painful to hear, as the engine is literally at max revs (about 4,000 rpm) before anything happens.

Thanks for the tip re checking the vacuum pipe on the clutch housing. I seem to remember reading somewhere that there might be also be an issue with a cable coming adrift from under the selector lever, which I have not had a chance to check yet. (Shame that due to consumer hysteria, Volvo modified the selector lever arrangement)

Anyway, clutch parts and new belts are on order.

There are some service bills and stamps in the booklet that show regular routine engine servicing up to 2006 but no word anywhere about transmission work!

I really want to get this car nice and right for the same reasons that we all do. And it will have an easy life as it will be just a bit of a hobby car.

There appears to be no welding done(!) and there are just a few usual rust spots although paint has come off parts of the wheel arches and door bottoms, but priority is to get the mechanicals sorted.

interior just needs a bit of a polish and hoovering.

And... it's a 3-door! "Only" a DL but not fussed too much. Oh yes - the tailgate struts have also done the usual!

[petefarrell360]

Hi Mr Mac! Yes, good thinking about a possible stuck on clutch disengage servo device. I think from memory that is over come at about 2000 rpm.

I think the cable you might be thinking of Bjorn is an earth wire, it has to move the entire length of the travel of the gear selector in a pendulum motion, and normally ends up snapping off in the end. That normally gives a very difficult and crunchy gear selection as the disengaging device isn't working then.

Sounds like a nice car, have you got any pictures of it for us?

Pete

[Bjorn Belter]

I think that is the cable I was thinking of, because on the couple of occasions that I have started the car, it is also doing the crunchy gear change syndrome.

Re pics, I'll see what I can do, but I never have much joy in working out how to put pics onto forums without filling the whole screen!!

I may not be able to take many pics yet anyway, because the car is hiding in a tiny lock-up at the moment and (I know this is embarrassing) but I won't be doing the work on it myself due to time and general mechanical incompetence. I can often diagnose problems/queries but when it comes to doing, er.... So once the parts arrive, it's going to be recovered to a garage who I think are competent, who will work on it as and when they can.

Some of you may have seen the car for sale recently on the UK Autotrader site, because that is where I discovered it and bought it from. It was the red one.

[pettaw]

No need to be embarrassed about not doing the work on the car yourself at all. The only thing I'd advise is that you ask the garage that you choose very seriously and carefully whether they have worked on this specific type of transmission and car before. If they start umming and ahhing then very politely walk away.

If they're a garage that you have had a long relationship with and you can talk frankly to the workshop people then you might offer that we can provide them with technical details here and workshop procedures about shim adjustment and belt adjustment.

I don't want to seem overly fussy, but these types of transmission really are very unique and many have been ruined at the hands of the 'professionals' and that includes main dealers too, especially nowadays when its just 'a crappy old car' and the people who maybe used to service them and knew how they worked have since moved on from that franchise.

BTW I reckon one of the main reasons that the CVT clutches wore out quite so quickly is because they never got readjusted as they wore down. It is something that should be checked regularly and the shims adjusted, but as the revs needed to engage the clutch rise then more heat is generated and the clutch wears more, raising the engagement speed etc etc

[Bjorn Belter]

Yes, I agree that lots of Variomatics have been "lost" and wasted due to lack of understanding at dealers etc.

I will be asking the couple of garages some pertinent questions!

Meanwhile, I think I have attached a couple of pics now - these weren't taken by me, they were from the advert, and those plastic wheel trims have gone!

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn21 ... olvoV1.jpg
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn21 ... Volvo6.jpg
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn21 ... Volvo2.jpg
[/img]

[SteveP]

Good man, that's a lovely looking Mk2!

[trabitom99]

... and those plastic wheel trims have gone!

That's a good thing Nice looking car, best of luck with getting the vario sorted!

Tom

[Bjorn Belter]

Just to let you know that the new clutch and bits have arrived and are in the boot, along with new tailgate struts too.

The car was collected on the back of a recovery lorry yesterday and taken to an independent Volvo specialist, who I discovered via the old interweb and, would you believe, is only about 12 miles away.

So the other day, I went to see them and asked whether he would be able/prepared to work on a 340 Vario. (There were lots of much newer Volvos there!) His reply was absolutely and he explained that he's had 27 years ex-dealer experience.

I mentioned the failed clutch symptons, and deliberately referred to the "clutch engagement valve". With no hesitation, he said it's a disengagement valve!

This gives me some hope, so he has got my custom.

I'll keep you posted.

[trabitom99]

I now have a question for the CVT experts too, as since yesterday I'm a proud owner of a 1980 343 Vario

http://www.volvo300mania.com/forum-uk/v ... php?t=7102

A bit of info to start with. The car has been used very little in the past years and only on short journeys. The last Volvo main dealer service was in 1986 at 30000 kms, the car now has 90000 kms on the clock. The last recorded oil change was in 2002, at around 86000 kms. It drives, steers and brakes very nicely though.

However, the CVT system has difficulty in engaging. It is easy enough to move the gear selector around (unfortunately, the previous owner had warmed the engine up before I arrived so I can't say whether the same is true at higher revs). However, when you've placed it in D or R, and you slowly put your foot on the accelerator, there is a loud "klack, klack, klack noise", the selector lever vibrates wildly, and there is no movement.

Eventually, after several careful efforts (D is easier than R) the car gets going.

Once it gets going, everything seems perfect. The clutch engages and disengages at traffic lights, and the revs at engagement seem just above idle speed which sounds ideal. The problem arises only if you move the selector lever (not the actual moving of it, but the later application of the accelerator pedal.)

Could something in the connecting rods have come adrift? Another interesting "feature" is that the car moves forward in N as well, so I'm inclined to think there may be some connection problem between the selector lever, the rods and the primary drive (after having read Mac's superb CVT article in the tech section )

#--------#

Another question I have, not necessarily directly connected with the above problem.

I need to drive 200 miles home with this car. Of course it would be great to be able to check and change all the fluids before driving home, but that might be a problem on a Saturday afternoon

Is the CVT system or the rear diff known for running dry? There is a slight oil leak on the plastic CVT cover, I guess that means there is still some oil in there

Or is that a bit risky, considering the belts won't have been adjusted in years, and the oil levels in the transmission probably haven't been topped up for a while either?

Cheers

Tom

[mac]

Hi Tom,

The vibration and klack klack is (most probably) belts - they do this when they're beginning to break up! Any other 'out of balance' forces would get worse at speed.

However there is more going on - driving in neutral - as P R N D is a purely mechanical selection by dog clutch on the primary pulley shaft drive in N can only mean a failure or maladjustment on the input side of the primary unit (that is the only area that 'makes or breaks' the drive from the propshaft to the primary pulleys)

If I had to make a guess I would say that the first thing I would look at is the selector link that is fitted to the selector shaft where it emerges from the top of the primary unit - IF heavy vibration has loosened the cotter/clamping bolt then a sloppy gear linkage, less than full movement of the dog clutch, and drive in N and D could result. If this is what is happening you will find that drive forward is available in N having moved from D to N but that reverse is available in N if you have moved from R (probably). Check also for wear in the rest of the linkage.

Unless there is a lot of oil on the undertray don't be too concerned - they're a bit like the manuals (they tend to weep) a little.

First - check the security of the gear linkage for 'lost movement'.
Second - look at the belts - I suspect you'll see 'chunking' (lumps out of the drive flanks). While you're there look for damage to the pulley surfaces. Another thing that cause a heavy vibration is (strangely enough) the oil in the primary pulley diaphram chambers (over time the ATF reacts with the rubber and clots and goes lumpy - you have to see it to believe it)

Ps If you want a hard copy of my article just let me know and I'll print one off for you.

All the best - Mac.

[trabitom99]

Thanks for that, Mac! Looks like I'll be searching for a specialist dealer in my area soon, I'll try the DAF forums for that.

The vibration and klack klack is (most probably) belts - they do this when they're beginning to break up! Any other 'out of balance' forces would get worse at speed.

Indeed, they don't. I got up to around 70kph during the test run, and it drove very smoothly... The problem was purely on engagement.

I've still got to get it 290 kms home though Which type of driving causes the least wear on the belts? Slow motorway driving, or country roads? I'm guessing the former ...

Cheers

Tom

[petefarrell360]

Hi Tom, I think Mac has given an incredibly detailled explanation, so there isn't much to add, other than, something that Will01908 taught me before I ever had a vario when he took me out in his low mileage Variomatic 340. The temptation in driving a vario for anyone not used to the system is to apply the accelerator as normal, which will often result in a jerky or sudden start, as all in a split second, the clutch will have to engage, but the revs will also be quite high by that point too, resulting in a sudden engagement of drive at highish revs! This will also reduce the life of the clutch.

The best thing to do is to touch the accelerator just until you hear and feel the engagement, then apply the accelerator as normal, that way, you won't be taken by surprise when it engages, it will produce a smooth pull away and hopefully save wear on the components.

I say this also because if you're being over cautious you may be pushing the pedal very slowly and in the area of the rev range where it engages it may fluctuate just enough to engage and then disengage once or twice, before the revs rise enough to keep it engaged then produce drive. This however should be more of a loud clicking which may result in a little motion jerk.

The noise could be coming from the clutch or whole drive assembly before the belts, as if it's happening as you're pulling away, the belts at that point shouldn't be moving before it engages drive. To me it gives a hint that something in the clutch is loose or proud as opposed to the rest of it, as only at this point before coming into contact with the pressure plate and then being locked together would it have chance to make the noise. Is it related to engine speed, i.e. more revs at this point and the noise gets faster too? Odd that it goes away later on. Thinking about it, something may actually be sticking, so that you've selected drive for example, the clutch is trying to engage, but doesn't quite make contact, but something that is proud does, or just the vibration produces the noise, so it could be the release bearing? Once it's then freed up it works as it should.

It's one of those that unless you actually see, hear and play around with it, it's quite hard to be sure, but there are a couple of probably useless ideas from me that I've thought of, but you never know!

Pete