Need a part? How about by printing it?

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jtbo
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Need a part? How about by printing it?

Post by jtbo » 04 Nov 2011 05:55 pm

I'm struggling to keep up with times, so I have known about 3d printing for years, but only today I woke up to reality that it is all around you already, with not so incredible expensive prices either, I still don't know all the limits of technology, but what I read is quite impressive, for example on this site:
http://i.materialise.com/

Largest printable size for stainless steel is 1003 x 476.3 x 247.6 mm. You can actually print stainless steel and even a titanium!!! :shock:

I'm not a much of 3d modeller, but I can do some things with it and currently I'm thinking to go and put lot of effort to learn it better so that I could offer 3d modelling for individuals that needs part, which they can then print, but it still is bit under question if printable object would be enough good for actual use and if it would be enough low price, however I think in future both answers will be yes, so effort is probably not wasted.

In my current job there is no future really, time has overtook and it is time for change, but that aside, what do you think about printing NLA parts, will it come to reality or do you think it is already reality?

For example Volvo emblems, I think printing them will be really good way to make them, but I think for those cost is too high? If they can do titanium silver and stainless steel it really can't lack of strength, I imagine that it would be possible to make some usable parts?

Indicator lenses?

Any parts you think that would be possible today?

Some custom parts surely might be quite nice to be made that way?

Post your thoughts / ideas, this is quite new to me so I might even fantasy more out of it that there really is.
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Re: Need a part? How about by printing it?

Post by macplaxton » 04 Nov 2011 07:14 pm

I've heard of 3D printing, it's the dog's danglies by all accounts. Certainly would be useful for making those unobtainium parts.

A couple of BBC podcasts on it:
GlobalBiz: New Dimensions for Manufacturing (1) 6 Aug 11
GlobalBiz: New Dimensions for Manufacturing (2) 13 Aug 11

and a BBC News online link
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Re: Need a part? How about by printing it?

Post by jtbo » 04 Nov 2011 08:14 pm

Imagine how one instead of modifying front suspension crossmember, can actually just make new lower suspension arms bit longer from titanium, just making 3d model and printing that then install new parts to car and you get more camber, no welding required, just few clicks with a mouse and you have suspension parts that are lighter and stronger than old ones giving you changes in car handling and wheel angles, one could do even 4 link setup that just needs to be installed on place :shock:

I think there has been titanium brake discs at some point of racing history?

How about new cylinder head or intake manifold, doing individual runners for injector setup?

Titanium exhaust manifold, now would that be class or what? :mrgreen:

Yeah, might cost a bit, but for racing world it will be quite big thing, some things are possible to make which are not possible with traditional methods.

You could even get better jaws than Jaws had :mrgreen: :
http://www.3d-printers.com.au/2011/02/2 ... m-process/
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Re: Need a part? How about by printing it?

Post by Speedy88 » 04 Nov 2011 08:48 pm

It's interesting the amount of stuff that can be printed. I'm sure you've probably seen this in the Zietgeist film where they can print houses using quick setting mortar which is pretty damn cool.
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Re: Need a part? How about by printing it?

Post by mat_91 » 04 Nov 2011 09:02 pm

now that is pretty dam cool bet its not cheap at the mo thou
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Re: Need a part? How about by printing it?

Post by jtbo » 04 Nov 2011 09:19 pm

mat_91 wrote:now that is pretty dam cool bet its not cheap at the mo thou
I saw a quote from 3 cubic inches being 75 US dollars, but that was from 2008, probably a lot cheaper now. Might do some testing later, by making some 3d part and send it to that one site, they say that it should give quote automatically and then I can decide if I do it or not. I think that in 5 years it start to compete in prices with one off parts via traditional methods, if not even faster.

Maybe one could build even shock absorber valving with that, print your shock absorbers!? :lol:

With silver coating headlight reflectors should be quite a possibility. Maybe even lenses, but I think materials are not yet quite good enough for that yet, anyway there are possibilities, a lot of and it really looks like that this thing will be way to get parts in a future.

If I could make enough good models, then I could of course sell parts which I print, which might give me some job which would be really nice compared to current little job now and then.
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Re: Need a part? How about by printing it?

Post by Fuse » 04 Nov 2011 09:52 pm

3D printing with metals, it's not as straight forward as with plastic. It involves many different phases, ovens and is more like casting than printing and machines needed are industrial size. So no crossmembers yet with this technology. :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20R9nItDmPY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9VOwqtOglg

With plastics there are these almost consumer-sized devices already

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LmQlbse ... ure=fvwrel
http://www.desktopfactory.com/

At 2009 I was a part of this Field Robot project at the uni, the shell of the main robot was made with 3d-printing technology.

http://autsys.tkk.fi/en/attach/FieldRob ... d.orig.jpg

With metals though if durability is needed, I would choose a multi-axis CNC machine over a metal 3d printer and the needed ovens any day. 8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsmiIeAkE-o
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Re: Need a part? How about by printing it?

Post by jtbo » 04 Nov 2011 10:08 pm

Ah, but there is no point getting those printers yourself, well only if you plan to get into printing business, there are now hundreds of companies that actually will print what you design and do all the oven things too.

Lower suspension arms are certainly possible as those are not too large and with latest metal printing things they are as strong as stainless steel or titanium.

I think that no more than 10 years and CNC is considered worse choice of two, this printing technology is now on high development train and I did use cad cnc machines at 1994 and so far I have not seen them being that much more advanced today.

I find that 3d printing has taken huge leap in 2-3 years, it has become indeed to making of parts instead of prototyping.

edit: headlight reflectors can be coated by this kind of thing:
http://www.sidrabe.com/3d-parts-coating
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Re: Need a part? How about by printing it?

Post by Evoman » 05 Nov 2011 12:25 am

I think it'll cost alot, your asking people to make one off prototypes of the parts, for which companys are prepared to pay thousands. I looked at getting two 300 mm diameter spheres 3D printed, they wanted nearly £2000, and this was a council project to encourage new "invention" but it was nearly 3 years ago. Plastic printing is slow as well, i could imagine a indicator lens would take a good few hours with some afterwork to get the finish, thats the experience I had with the small 3D printer where I worked over the summer. I think its a definite future possibility, and will be the cheapest method of producing one off parts due to the low change over time and its massive flexibility. Just not sure its quite there, however its a possibility, i guess it depends on your budget ;)
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Re: Need a part? How about by printing it?

Post by jtbo » 05 Nov 2011 10:36 am

Indicator lens might be around 100ish, they did not offer price for transparent material online, but abs was 89 euros, polyamide ~70 euros, with bit of shopping around one might find better quote than that, sure it is expensive still for average man, but prices will go down as more and more competition emerges, change in that business has been huge in last few years.

edit:
I did play around bit more, tubular A-arm would be around 500ish from stainless steel. Big F1 kind of rear wing for scale model is under a tenner. When prices are getting half from what they are today it will be very interesting, even at current prices, when you go to some company and order one off suspension arm how much that will cost?
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Re: Need a part? How about by printing it?

Post by Evoman » 05 Nov 2011 06:27 pm

Ye it has the potentail to be a very good method of one off production
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Re: Need a part? How about by printing it?

Post by jtbo » 05 Nov 2011 10:44 pm

Evoman wrote:Ye it has the potentail to be a very good method of one off production
Indeed, it may take 2-5 years, but eventually I think this will be solution to some parts issues.

Also I did read that that titanium printing machine did cost 1 000 000 dollars, it is first of it's kind on that site and started operating at february 2011.

As I did play around, I did found out that some pendants and scale model parts are already quite affordable, will be interesting these coming years on that area.
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