Problems with Dafhobby and a Dutch website

[classicswede]

I'm sure Tom has used Dafhobby in the past and been quite happy with the service.

As there are so few of us doing anything with the 300 series I would like to see the conflict resolved.

Has anyone contacted Danny to ask him for his side on this and let me know this thread exists. Perhaps there is a simple solution that everyone would be happy with???????

[mac]

Dai - I too would love this to be resolved - if you read my responses to Danny, and my posts earlier in this thread you will see that I have no personal issue with him. I too have bought from him in the past without problems BUT he does have an issues with RJ - he also has a history of duplicating products that have been developed by RJ. And for whatever reasons has been instrumental in having RJs adverts removed from Marktplaats. RJ researches and develops a product and Danny seems to copy it, undercuts RJ - reducing RJs potential profit and dis-incentivising him from developing more - helping the cause how ???.

Danny wanted to buy 3 diff kits to sell on - I have no problem with this except that I already have an arrangement with RJ who has invested in purchasing stock from me and I am currently quite happy for him to "handle" Europe.

Danny does not wish to deal with RJ (fine his commercial choice) BUT his response to me is effectively " if you don't sell your kits to me I shall produce and sell my own" Again his commercial decision. Just how does this encourage me to bother producing new products (such as my bolt shop) if I am simply to be copied and outsold.(Danny is already starting to sell the bolts that RJ carries!)

Personally I think that I have done tolerably well for the 300 scene -(asking no profit) - for the last few years (and of course RJ has done a fantastic job) but if the "scene" is ambivalent to to a purely commercial enterprise grabbing what market there is, at the expense of true enthusiasts, then someone please tell me why I should bother ????

How will you feel, Dai, if (or when) he starts aggressively selling "your" poly bushes?

Aw stuff it - I'm goin' to the fridge for a beer.

Mac.

[volvodspec]

now that's just retarded! in the small group of enthousiasts that we are we can't have individual suppliers trying to ruin eachothers business..
i've been guiding countless of people to Dafhobby for years now and even spended a lot of money on parts there myself, now i'm not sure if i will ever do either again if this is how they think business should be done..

i do know that both Mac's and RJ's parts are the quality that parts should be, through extensive research and testing. i don't think you can say the same of some of Dafhobby's parts, i remember a lot of problems with CVT belts, driveshaft bolts etc in the recent past.. so instead of poking others the eyes out, they should be concentrating on selling quality parts; if you sell quality the people will spread the word and custumors will come anyway

[Vermilion]

I've ordered some things from Dafhobby in the past, a few small things like tailgate supports and tachometer, axlecovers&bolts, ball joints and such. I had good communication with Danny and received everything in good condition. As a buyer I'm happy with Dafhobby, but also, as a buyer I've never noticed anything like what's apparently going on, so I can't say anything about that.

[trabitom99]

It's a huge shame the way this is turning out. There are so few people making and selling parts for the 300-series, that its everyone's loss if they're at each others' throats. I really do hope this can be resolved.

This is all looking very bad for Danny in these posts, so I feel I have to stick up for him a little here, especially as I haven't heard his side of the story. As a buyer I have had no problems whatsoever with him and can only report positive things. I don't know anyone else where you can write an email saying "I need a clutch, some vario membranes, some shims, a Mk1 exhaust downpipe, a microswitch and can you please post this lot to the garage of my choice within the next few days" and then the guy asks his dad to drive the lot over the German border so he can get a better postage quote. The German DAF club has been recommending him for years, and these are the first negative reports I've heard about the things he sells.

Do remember Danny is doing this commercially, as a business. It's not just "a hobby" for him (despite the name Dafhobby), and he pays his rent from what he earns by selling these parts. If he sees that a part is being produced somewhere else successfully, he's within his rights to try and get in on the act himself - it's a Volvo part being reproduced after all, so the "intellectual property" is Volvo's at the end of the day. If it turns out that Danny's quality is not up to scratch compared with mac and RJs parts, people will wake up soon enough, "vote with their" feet and take their business elsewhere, but you can't blame him for trying.

However, my opinion is that it would have done no harm at all to put some links from the Dafhobby site over to RJs, macs and Dais parts - I mean how many door seals and gasket kits can you sell to make it really worth your while commercially? It's such a shame that all the good that's being done can't be bundled together, the last the V300 scene needs is this kind of "cannibalisation".

Tom

[mac]

I don't think anybody wishes to deny Danny the right to a successful commercial operation - as I have said I have bought from him with no problems at all - that is not the issue.

What we have here is the very different philosophies of the commercial operator and that of the enthusiast. I can see both sides but there is no doubt that Danny has been instrumental in RJs adverts being pulled from Marktplaats by claiming they contained "banned material" - and I have no doubt that RJ has swiped back. There has been talk of "copied" kits and poorer quality parts - I cannot vouch for that and in any case we all copy Volvo and the "market" would sort out the quality issue in due course. But again this is not the real issue either.

RJ (and I and others) develop parts where there is a need, I do so at cost to myself and take no profit, RJ is more "commercial" but has to fund the huge contribution he makes by researching and testing new items(by selling them).

Danny, with "an eye to the chance" seems to say - if RJ has developed this there must be a need so I want in - promptly reproduces RJs developments and markets them aggressively. Good commercial practice of course except that the market is so small. Targeting RJ reduces his ability and inclination to continue doing what he does to the detriment of us all. The Daf/ Volvo market is small enough as it is without us squabbling over the SAME components. Co - operation would serve us all so much better.

My view is quite simple. I have no argument with Danny, I wish no argument with Danny ( other than to say I stand by my friends), but his response to my pointing him in RJs direction to buy my diff kits ( RJ carries my products in Europe) was to threaten me! - at least I take " sell me your kits direct or I shall "be forced" to reproduce them and sell my own" to be a threat.

So, if we have a situation where Danny makes the profit, RJ no longer can afford to develop new products, my kits are reproduced so I no longer bother to - the pleasure has gone out of it for me, I have to ask will Danny now spend his time researching and developing the parts we want - remember he's a Daf specialist. I suspect he has neither the time nor inclination to do so.

I am afraid these current squabbles are preventing what we should be seeking to do - co-operate. Links to each others sites,
supplying each others ranges, Helping each other not fighting commercial battles over an enthusiasts market. I fear that attitudes will prevent that ever happening.

Yes, Danny has given good service - I don't think anybody is denying that - as long as he has the parts you need. (and if he doesn't and there is nobody else left ??)

Mac.

[volvomania]

I have no problems with pointing people towards Danny if they need something that I can't help them with, I have done so in the past and will continue to do so in the future.
I will also point them towards the "cornershop" if they can get decent quality parts over there.
My goal is to keep as many vehicles on the road, with happy owners, as possible.
However I will NOT insert a link in my future website to his website.

The whole copying of parts matter has deviated from what really happened initially. While developing the now infamous EMV kit I also invested quite heavily in a small but clear instruction manual so that anyone can tackle the overhaul of an EMV or a tachorelais. Therefor one may probably be not surprised that I was 1) surprised to find that the kit was copied (even though according to "specialists" there wouldn't be any interest in those) and 2)angered when I discovered that b/w copies of the BBB manual were being delivered with the other kit, without even asking me for any permission whatsoever, and making it seem that it was an BBB kit.
I too copy parts, we all do, from Volvo in my case, but I've spent more than a year talking with Sweden to get permission for this. I do not copy any parts blind but grab the chance to insert improvements if and when necessary.

Dai, Tom, I do not see a need to copy any parts that are allready available just for the sake of having them on offer as the funds for those can be spent more wisely by bying stock and investing the rest in other projects.

I must agree fully with Mac that when the fun for me ceases to exist and/or the funds have dried up I can simply stop leaving the others beached with their vehicles as Danny will probably quit around the same time as there will not be any "threats" left for him. This wouldn't bother me, I have a private stash to fully restore 7 early vehicles and keep them running until the day I die, I will have just lost the bet, for a case of Duvel beer, I made with a fellow enthusiast early in 2009 when I wanted to prove to him that there was a sustainable market for Volvo 300 parts.

Tom, as for the cheaper postage, I too drive to Holland (from Belgium) to post the parcels for my international customers so that they can get a better deal. In some cases I even deliver them in person but I regard that as "service" and not anything special. The Belgian and German postoffices for Danny are only a 10min drive but yes I must credit him for doing that.

[trabitom99]

Mac, Robbert - point taken. I do hope these issues don't stop you doing what you are to keep our cars on the road. This kind of thing can certainly take the fun out all the work you've put in.

I recieved an email from Danny last night asking about the discussion taking place in the forum - and I pointed this thread out to him. Maybe he'll take the opportunity to put up his view on things. Distributing copies of other people's written manuals, without reference to the author ... ouch. That's wrong.

Tom

[Chris_C]

I will have just lost the bet, for a case of Duvel beer, I made with a fellow enthusiast early in 2009 when I wanted to prove to him that there was a sustainable market for Volvo 300 parts.

I thought the sole reason was you liked making *proper* parts, not toyshop ones!

[trabitom99]

when I wanted to prove to him that there was a sustainable market for Volvo 300 parts.

I was surprised Robbert, when you wrote that excluding the UK, there is more interest outside the Benelux than inside! That's good news anyhow ...

Cheers

Tom

[volvomania]

I thought the sole reason was you liked making *proper* parts, not toyshop ones!

That is something I can start if this fails; parts for the Stahlberg 300 series...

[volvodspec]

Mac, Robbert - point taken. I do hope these issues don't stop you doing what you are to keep our cars on the road. This kind of thing can certainly take the fun out all the work you've put in.

+1, as in the 3 other big posts above; if running a commercial business would mean that the cars won't get some of the critical/car specific wearing bits and bobs renewed it would be a real shame.

i've also contacted Dafhobby earlier this week with a quote on how i see this thing as a custumor from both Dafhobby, BornBuiltBeauties and Mac (pretty much a sum up of the above posts) and got replied with the request to call them but i really don't want to get personally involved in this, just trying to create the eye-opener and like Dai said earlier hope that the 3 of you can sort something out. that would eventually be better for the cars anyway

[trabitom99]

I got an email from Danny the other day, explaining his side of the story. However, it is up to him to post, I don't want to get involved in the dispute and don't want to take sides either ...

I think Danny / RJ won't ever get to be friends, but let's hope they continue to do their good work, seperately from each other.

Cheers

Tom

[mac]

Seems clear enough - I don't think anybody can object to Danny putting his point of view, nor to him stating his version of events.

Over to Danny - please join in the discussion - I/we ask this NOT to promote argument but in fairness and openness and with a sincere hope that
a resolution can be found to the issues - I hope that nobody really wants RJ and I etc. to stop our research and go away. The market is there, and
enough for all of us, but not if we squabble over the same parts!! Surely we should co-operate, link to each others products and be glad to promote
our hobby. BUT I for one will not lift a finger to help anybody who wishes ill to another.

Mac.

[volvomania]

I have noticed that it stays quiet from his side.
He has tried to approach individuals so that he can twist his story but let me show you what angers me a lot and with what he wants to get away with:


Guess which one is the copy and this is what he does time and time again.