help, cold start problems

[tim-andre]

my 360 is quite hard to start when its been stationary for a while, takes 4-6 times to start
b19a engine, i have switched out sparkplugs, fuelfilter, airfilter and ?rotor? cables will be changed tomorrow
i have noticed the exhaust is kind of thick white/gray when it starts, and gets normal when its warm, also i get moisture on my hand when i put it infront of the exhaust, and it smells like gasoline
it runs very well when warm, but is idling on 1500 rpm, so i have to adjust that.
anyone know what can solve this problem? is it just getting to much fuel?
will adjust the idle down when i get around to it

thanks for replies beforehand
Tim

[Ride_on]

Sounds like carb problems, could be any manner of ills, too much air, choke adjustment, throttle stop. Jet and needle may need replaced if you can't get the mixture down.

[tim-andre]

its not the choke, tried screwing the thingy down, and it still is on 1500 rpm
filled up on carb oil, and cheked the mambrane in the carb, no scratches or holes in it
tried turning the mixture screw, but nothing happened, may be that

thanks for the reply
Tim

[jtbo]

Fuel valve in fuel pump might be out of order, which leads fuel to disappear from carb and fuel filter etc. so you need to spend lot of starting time to get it pumped back up.

Electric fuel pump or new mechanical one is perhaps easiest way to solve that issue.

Before making it run bad by fiddling with settings and carb, check if there is fuel in float chamber when stood stationary for a while, or if you have transparent fuel filter check if it is empty after standing still for a while.

That is very common issue with older cars, AFAIK, leaking fuel hose can also cause some effect of such quality and in old car there usually is at least one leaking, fabric covered ones are such that they are leaking, they are probably not even damp, but they still are leaking, there are such under the car after boxed section and at top of the tank too, which cause high fuel consumption, at engine bay between fuel pump and carb they can cause starting issues.

When all that is verified, checked and in order, then I would look carb, that is what I have learned from experience with these cars

Get carb rebuild kit, should be available still from carbexpertshop uk or whatever that was, maybe you have also some local shop, here in Finland there is Kaasutinexpertti which imports sets from UK, eventually you are going to need such as there are gaskets that you need to replace every time you open up carb and with time some parts will need replacing.

Another thing I have learned is that assumption leads nowhere, I have assumed many times something to be ok as it looks ok, but when inspecting and testing I find it was not ok, so never assume anything, that is something I consider one of the golden rule of diagnosing running/starting problems.

Get haynes book of carburettors, it is really great book and worth the money, you can perhaps find it cheap from UK book shop that I posted about, try search haynes carburettors from this board and you should find link, it did not cost much of anything delivered to me, so should not cost too much for there either, it contains information that makes life with carbs a lot easier, good pictures, descriptions and fault diagnosing, also how to adjust and tune carb to factory specs and close to optimal settings without exhaust meters.

When I did my carb change to running and starting was incredible, it really did change how engine did run, and probably savings on petrol will pay the book back, but that would of course require me to get car back on road...

Anyway, armed with all that you should get best out from your vehicle and it is really satisfying when motor starts and purrs as it was designed to do.

[tim-andre]

thanks! i think i learned something from reading all that
when i changed the fuelfilter after letting the car stand still over night, gasoline was pouring out of it, i have not checked that on the new one yet but i will do
will also check the floater

i don't know about any carb dealers or someone who imports/makes carb parts around here, but i will look into that, im guessing we may import a kit through my work place also, same with the book, we sell some haynes books, so maybe we have one about carbs laying around

anyway, thanks for the reply! it was very useful

[Nimminz]

possibly try a compression test to see if the head gasket is weeping water into a cylinder? thats what i think mine is doing. would explain the difficult starting, white smoke - steam thus moisture out of exhaust. possibly not the revs?

I'd say a compression test would be worth a try before stripping down the carb?

[tim-andre]

it does not use any water, and revs fine, i think its just too much gasoline or air on mine, hopefully

[Nimminz]

if it's not using water then it's probably not the head gasket. Good luck finding out what it is though mate! Afraid i know nothing about carbs :/

[tim-andre]

not using water, and there is no oil/discolouring in the water
the idle screw was completely out thou, so was the mixture screw, did not happen anything for one complete turn on the idle screw, but it is idling healthy in about 7-800 rpm now hopefully its easier to start in the morning now

[jtbo]

One simple test is to leave air filter out, is it worse or better? That is supposed to lean out mixture.

If it is not even trying for long time, then it is not getting fuel.

If it runs a bit but not fully and dies, it can be too rich, spark plugs might be poor but at least it is that choke needs adjusting, adjustment had several phases but it should not be very difficult, if choke closes fully it does not mean anything yet.

If keeping throttle tiny bit down while starting it starts better, then it is running too rich as that leans out mixture too, choke needs adjusting.

If base of carb is warped and black thing is cracked, seals old and unchanged it causes leaning out, a lot and poor starting, but first adjusting choke to standard setting is needed, after that one can start to guessing other things as adjusting here and there without setting base level is masking the issue and even one can get some problem fixed it often creates other problems, I have learned this hard way with carbs.

Carb itself is balance scale, change anything before and after it and it is off, that is something one must remember, it can adapt a bit, but not much. However when everything is set to standard and there are not faults, it can be quite reliable and good device, but it is very sensitive to any kind of error or change.

One of changes is modern ethanol petrol, it causes wear to Cisac carb from my experience and it is bit different from older petrol, so it is going to have some effect for sure.

Carbs are not very difficult when one figures them out, but there is lot of things that can go wrong with them and quite easily hard to repair so that makes them annoying, imo.

[tim-andre]

i think the previous owner did som adjusting on it so it would run "better"
both of the screws where fully out, and i had to turn the idle screw about one time around to get it to react, turned it so the engine was running a bit healthier 7-800 rpm
and the mixture screw i tightened, turned it a half round out again, and adjusted it so that the rpm didnt go down when braking, it will do for now, and i will adjust it better in some time shortly
i tried changing the filter to a "sports" airfilter, and it ran better with it before i started to adjust it, so i gues it got to much gas

thanks for the replies!
Tim

[jtbo]

I suspect that it might have air leak, maybe at the base of carb, mix screw fully out usually means that, one thing to collection of telltales something is wrong for used car buyer

[tim-andre]

thought about checking that, and will do it for sure now, havent gotten around checking the floater either, will do that at the same time
thanks

[tim-andre]

took the whole thing apart, and cleaned it out, the floater is fine, and so are the other components
only problem ive got now is that the choke screw unscrews or screws it self in and out, and the idle screw turns itself out, so im guessing its running way too rich. turned down the mixture screw, so will find out soon enough if its better.. kinda pisses me off standing in heavy traffick with 2000 rpms.. so if it doesnt stop, loctite is my friend

[jtbo]

There is supposed to be rubber plug at mixture screw hole, but often it is lost.

Idle adjustment screw is supposed to stay on place by spring that is between screw end and carb.

Choke screw, hmm, I think that there was diagraph (was that the word?) and spring under that and it made also screw enough sticky not to open by itself?