343 resurrection

[oobik]

Hello,

from time to time I take part of local amateur rally stage competitions. So far I've been driving 740 GLT which has B234F engine and M47 gearbox. I quite like how the car drives/handles but I start to dislike it's size slowly, enough of squeezing the big boot around tight corners. From competitive point of view, 2.3l engine puts me into class with other animals which often have smaller body size and more capable engine. My old man has two 343's rotting in garden, one is in pretty good shape and seems to be suitable for rising from dust. It had full body restoration done just before he pulled it away, thats could be the reason for relative good body condition. Other body is for spare parts.

I got question about engines. It is clear that I can not use current engines for racing(both are 1.4l). What are my best options considering that I have working B234F in that 740? I like the NA aspect of the 234f, how it handles. With wilder cams and tiny modifications I can get it to 190hp area which is goal for me.

I see two options, get a 1.7l red block or one of those renault engines which allows me to compete in smaller class or go for the full bank, add as much power possible. Use the 234f as base and add turbo later etc. That brings me to question, how competitive is that small car in higher speeds?
If 234f is bad match, I could source for B200 bottom end and use the head from 234f in future, that seems next easiest option. Another reason trying to use working 234f is since I got all the parts including engine harness right under my nose already. Sourcing for engine which typically comes without harness means a lot of added work

Any ideas? Thanks!

[360beast]

Hello

The 343 has the 1.4 renault engine like you said, the problem with this is the bell housing is different to the redblock ones and it has a propshaft not a torque tube like the 360 does.

If you were to put a redblock in you would have to fit a 360 bellhousing and torque tube (perhaps some gearbox parts but not too sure on that one) then you can fit the B234F.

If you want to stick with the 343 propshaft etc then you could fit a renault F7P/R engine 1.8/2.0 16V engine running either injection or carbs, on here lots of people fit bike carbs to the F7 engine.
You could also fit a B18FT engine from a 480.

The problem with the propshaft though is that if the engine mounts aren't in good condition and they have sagged slightly this can missalign the propshaft causing it to split the rubber joints.

As for how competetive the 343 is, they weigh 989kg in standard form so a stripped out one with more power should be quite good at rallying.

[Chris_C]

What is the class structure of the events you do?

I have a 1998cc in my 340, but I couldn't recommend it for stages just because of the propshaft weakness 360beast mentions above. It is fairy competitive when it doesn't break... but if you want a turn key solution it's not it.

[oobik]

Cars are divided to sub 1800cc and over 1800cc, which again have separate classes for FWD & RWD.

The 300 series body is looking so tempting since it is like ca400kg lighter than 740 & 240 series. The more I dig into this subject the more troubles I see, since it is not "real" volvo.

Another limit seems to be that 343 and 360 are engineering wise different cars? I see that most redblock conversions are done with 360 and not with 340?
As mine are 343's with 1.4l engine I see that is also troublesome option from start since F7P likes the 1.7 more?

The more I look into it, it is either scrap the idea or just go ahead and do whatever it takes, crash and burn :/

On the other hand, I see it done here:
viewtopic.php?p=180836#p180836

A lot lighter and better balanced body to cope with casual oversteer you get from RWD, add engine which packs a punch and it sounds quite good on paper, right?

[Chris_C]

It's doable to convert the Renault engined stuff to Volvo engined, but if you are hoping to use your car you will need a few 360 things (box is the same in 340/360/740, but each has a different cast front plate) Mounting locations/ holes are not in the chassis rails for the 360 engine or gearbox mounts, that sort of thing.

If you are looking for a cheap way of using the 740 engine in something more fun, it's likely not the answer. If you want what can be a fun rally car at a fraction of the expense of an Escort, then they start to make sense. Mine has effectively not much more than monotube front dampers, Gaz adjustable rears, springs calculated to what I want, polybushes (and everything else overhauled) and an engine to fit the regs me local stuff runs (above and below 2000cc, mine is 1998cc).

It has got some useful results and upset some cheque book built cars, but it's not been a quick build.

EDIT: For your regs, an F7P would be interesting. They are rumoured to be less aggressive on the drive line compared to F7Rs too

[oobik]

Thank you,

after giving some thought, it sounds awful lot like, how much I want to keep my sanity :p

The car should be street legal, of course over time I would go over the suspension etc to bring it to good drivability. I am not interested to invest fortune into it but on the good days I would like it to offer competition in it's class.
Looking the simplicity of the car it seems like, it does not take much to get it going in amateur rally stages.

As I like driving more than tinkering under car I guess that should be the path:
*get the car inspected and crucial suspension/handling issues solved at least to stage 0.
*source for F7P and swap it in, see how that works and if I like the car at all once it is capable for some speed
*upgrade suspension and coils to stiffer handling along with decent wheels

If I like it really a lot and it offers a lot more fun than I expected for the investment, then will consider bringing over B234F. If that's too much hassle sell the engine, get B230FT and replace the rear axle from 240 as well. We got many 240's in our area.
I was planning to switch to 240 from 740 at first, but as the 240 weights almost the same and the wheelbase is not much smaller than 740, well there went that plan.

[thododd]

Sanity is overrated

[Ride_on]

The 360/340 is a rear gearbox, joined to the diff driving CV joints, design. To change to a normal rwd drive shaft and live axle you have to modify the bulkhead severly to fit the bell housing mounted gearbox.

[macplaxton]

and bugger up the nice weight distribution!

360 torque tube:



340 underneath:


Advert:

[oobik]

Thanks guys!

So basically it is the question of coming up with new engine mounts and figuring out the bell house connection. It seems pretty certainly I can reach out to someone for comments who has experience since it has been done more than once:
http://s122.photobucket.com/user/VolvoP ... 1190199593

Stock drive drain seems to be ok with 150-200bhp as well.

[classicswede]

The B234 conversion has been done but not quite as simple as it looks.
To start you are most likely going to want 360 running gear to start with.

Ideally you will use a B230 bottom end mated to the B234 cylinder head to do away with the troublesome balance shafts. The other option is to pull the balance shafts off the B234 block and blank off the oil ways.

The distributor needs to moved to the engine block. Most common way of doing this to cut down 240/360 dizzy and use a angle saab cap.

If your goal is only 200BHP then either a B234 or B230 /234 hybrid will deliver. Without the cat and running a free flowing exhaust there is a fair jump in power and upgrading the engine management to a stand alone system will also give another jump. Performance grind cam shafts will also provide a good gain combined with supporting engine management.

If you are thinking of going turbo with that engine then at the expense of a little balance a engine mounted gearbox and strong rear axle would be the way forward.

[oobik]

On 234f, I have blocked out and removed the balance shafts.
As for taking the head from 234f and marrying it with B230FT, I had that plan if I should go with 240 as chassis.
Now I am still holding on to the 300 idea, since chassis is almost 400kg lighter, instantly I could get much better power to weight ratio. And on the other side, looking how the 300 with transaxle behaves on the road is very encouraging, well compared with normal RWD cars. It is also evident if looking those old 1980 championship videos. Ford throws the tail out more happily and seems to be much bigger combat keeping it on the road than the 300.
While driving with the 700/200, thats exactly what I would like to reduce. Once the tail goes, it takes cautious care to get it back, fun to drive but slowish.

The 200bhp is that mystical edge for me where things still sound reasonable. I used to drive daily 5 series bmw which had 194bhp, it was all fun if only the body would have not been so heavy. With redblocks it seems to me that 200bhp area is relatively easy to reach, once you go over it, you might end up constantly fixing/upgrading the car since there is just too much.

I got very good offer for the B18E with turbo, how does that sound?

[Ride_on]

The 300 has a small negative camber thanks to the non-live axle so that may be reason for more controlled back end. Of course the axle rotation needs to controlled to hold the camber and toe-in by the rear radius arm, the arm is probably best replaced with rose joints as the rubber bushes will be knackered and NLA.

I'm not a racer but if you want reliability go B230FT married to a 360 driveshaft, it will do 200hp with a bleed valve. It can be fairly easily fitted to the 340 but you need a 360 donor for a few engine parts and the drive.

The Renault option will not be reliable in comparison but many happily run and race them.

[classicswede]

The NA B234f will be kinder to the running gear than going with a B230FT.

The lower unsprung weight of the back axle does also help especially when you take off.

I am making the tooling for the torque arm bushes.

[oobik]

Now, I inspected the 343 body I was talking about and I figured I can go on with the plans. Although the car has been standing like 10 years outside in our northern climate, it is in very good shape. No rust at all. I remember it correctly, my old man and me, we just were getting ready with complete body overhaul when new car arrived to family and 343 was left to standing. Front lights and grille is not yet put back, bottom is nice an black like it was covered with gravel protection yesterday. Trunk is full of spare parts, suspension, transaxles etc, as well the other body which is in pretty bad shape.

It is from 1980, 1.4l, green metallic version with MT4 gearbox. Is the MT4=M45?
I guess the gearboxes which are used in 300 series are special to 300's? For example front mounted gearboxes like 200 series can not be used?

Now I am planning to figure out as much as possible beforehand I start doing the swap. What parts I need etc.
I am especially curious, what parts I need from 360 to make it easier.
If anyone knows good links where somebody has outlined issues related to installing redblock to 343, please let me know.

Thanks!