thoughts on 2.3 performance....

[Chris_C]

A further example would be Ryan's 740. It's running a Garrett T3/T4 turbo, a K cam, Megasquirt for fuel/spark management with 630cc injectors, and (last year) 20psi of boost. At that level, it would comfortably spank a T5, and there's a lot more to come...a larger turbo, and more boost...but it took that much to beat a standard T5.

It surprises me with the amount of work that's gone into Ryans car, it really didn't feel *that* much quicker than the jap spec WRX I'd been driving that week when I had a passenger run. However, that is still a huge achievement! I've only had a dabble with T5's (driven a RICA'd one briefly) but I wouldn't have classed those in the same league tbh, maybe I need another play!

[SteveP]

Oh the face of it though Chris... engine wise there hasn't until now being that much work done... if you look at it at face value it's a standard B230 redblock, with a bigger turbo, cam, exhaust and a cylinder head from an earlier B230.. I think Ryan would gladly give you a ride in it when the new turbo goes on with a big valve head

Where the work has gone has been the megasquirt conversion, suspension and some of Ryans ricer mods

[foggyjames]

Steve's right...there's not that much done to the engine really...yet. The time has gone into the "supporting" work...MS, pipework (exhaust and things like flexi-lines for the turbo)...generally making the engine bay neater and nicer to work on. Funnily enough, the new turbo got its first fitting today...and it does fit (just)!

The WRX keeps up because of the better flowing heads. Taking a redblock as an example, I reckon you've got to best part of double the boost to compensate for the difference between the stock 8v and 16v heads.

cheers

James

[Chris_C]

Yeah, fair points guys! It was certainly flipping quick as it was

[foggyjames]

Aye, it shuffled along ok. It just needed a good chunk more power to be "funny". I mean just keeping up with a Scoob / Evo isn't much fun...

cheers

James

[Ride_on]

..but it's pretty hard to find engines like the B19E / high-comp B200E nowadays.

James

It is, the 97 323i we have has 2.5L and same compression ratio as the high compression B19/B200s, it also has some cam control (just timing I think). But it has no torque at tickover or anywhere near. You have be at 4K before you get decent power, and its really easy to stall. The straight 6 sounds lovely though. It has about the same power/weight as my 940 Turbo with normal boost. I tried high octane fuel in the BMW but didn't seem to make any difference over a week.

I do like low end grunt, and was slightly nervous about putting the 940 engine in the 360 and losing my beloved high comp B200K. But hopefully the 0-60 in 6s will make up for it.

[foggyjames]

None of the redblocks are that weak on torque. It might be a bit flat from tickover, but even off-boost the FT should be quite a bit quicker than the K. Ryan's 740 in 5th at 60 (off boost) would accelerate faster than my B200'RS' in 3rd (screaming its head off) in the 360. That was embarrassing...! Once he was into boost, there was no point in trying.

Amusingly, the easiest car I own to stall is my 1969 164! Having said that, you can tell that it has a very light flywheel just based on how quickly it spins up.

cheers

James

[SteveP]

I drove my GLS last night with the B19A... and thought about what RIde_on was saying about low end torque, it pulls strongly from like 1500rpm... puts the S70 to shame low down! Quite impressive. Shame about the top end...

[Chris_C]

Shame about the top end...

Still Twin Stroms! You'd be an absolute hero for doing that conversion to a GLS, it's crying out for it. Raid dolomite spares and you'd be pretty much there, just take the orig manifold off and store it for later.

[foggyjames]

Don't listen to the variable venturi heretic! It's all about the Webers! Why have half the throttle area you could have from a nice set of 45s

cheers

James

[SteveP]

40's or 45's?

[Chris_C]

Don't listen to the variable venturi heretic! It's all about the Webers! Why have half the throttle area you could have from a nice set of 45s

I was once like you young grasshopper... I argued for ages about how much better fixed carbs were. Then someone gave me the keys to his dolly sprint, and made me drive it for an afternoon (such is life )

Have you driven a GLS Foggy?

[foggyjames]

I've driven (and own) several cars with 'A' engines, cheeky monkey. Webers for me please Granted, the VV carbs do have their virtues (for starters, VND's new engine idles like new, with 208k on the clock...), but I'd still value the extra throttle area more (B200'RS' vs B19'B' at Santa Pod...my money isn't on the B19). You know I'm only pulling your leg anyway.

I was using 45s to give Chris some cheek (1.75" being roughly equal to a 45mm barrel). I'm undecided....40s are a lot cheaper usually, and I bet you'd barely notice the difference if you put some big venturis in the 40s.

cheers

James

[trabitom99]

Can someone explain the gist of the last 5 posts to me? It was all over the top of my head, which is a pity since I've got a B19A in the DLS

Tom

[foggyjames]

Steve mentioned that an 'A' engine doesn't do well at high RPM, and I said that's no surprise - the throttle area is too small to allow it to breathe well up there.

Then a comic (and light hearted) argument started between myself and Chris about how to rectify this - the relative merits of a twin 1.75" variable venturi carb (of your brand of choice...SU, etc) conversion vs a twin double-barrel fixed-jet carb (again, brand of choice...Weber DCOE, Dellorto DHLA, etc) arrangement. Essentially, B19"B" (taking the old code for a twin carb engine from the OHV era) vs B19RS.

As a random aside, a 164's twin carb B30 was a B30A (whereas with a B18, for example, a single carb was a B18A and a twin was a B18B). I guess Volvo intended the "B" to be the high performance version, whereas two carbs was just "normal" for the B30.

Chris is arguing that variable venturi carbs work better than fixed jet carbs. I'm arguing that the Webers will make more power...in a Clarkson-esque fashion. I'll readily concede that VV carbs are easier to set up (as long as you have a big box of needles...or a lathe!).

The keynote is that the B19A (and, IMO, all "A" engines) is a good daily driver, but not good for all-out performance.

cheers

James