Judder on moving off from standing start (1989 340 GL)

[Hell Driver]

Since getting the car back on the road I've been reminded of a problem the car had years ago before I took it off the road. After a clutch burnt out on the motorway it was never quite the same. When carrying passengers (or extra weight) there is a very nasty judder in first when moving off. I had this once before (before the clutch incident) and found a broken engine mount which I fixed. The mounts are fine so I'm assuming the flywheel as been damaged by the clutch burnout?
Has anyone had this before?
Is the best option to fit another flywheel or can the old one be sorted out?
It's fine with just me in the car, especially if you set off quickly

[mat_91]

if your engine mounts are fine then that normally means its warped the flywheel when the clutch burnout
only one way to check thou is rip it out

[Speedy88]

Could also be damaged prop splines

[Hell Driver]

Thanks, looks like I'll have to bite the bullet and get it all apart

[macplaxton]

Probably best pull it apart and have a butchers. See if there's an oil leak or not. I've done a few clutches over the years (not long after getting cars) and have seen the result of the previous owner's riding. Usually end up making a trip down the machine shop to have them refaced. Worst one was an Austin Maxi, because like Minis, they have bits of the clutch either side of the flywheel, so then engine shop has two faces to do and the three lugs, costs 3 times as much as an ordinary flywheel.

[magnumpi]

So general judder especially when selectingreverse and starting to go backwards could be down to dodgy engine mounts. I know mine are a bit iffy and it judders quite a bit. Best be getting me some of those then.

[Hell Driver]

I think I've found out whats causing the bad juddering. There is a very, very slight judder, probably from the flywheel BUT the really bad judder is very intermittent. Strange, the flywheel either is or isn't badly warped, it can just be bad sometimes!

The other day I realised there was a drag on the wheels as I pulled up to a roundabout, and the car felt like the brakes were dragging, by the time I was home I could smell hot brakes Found that both the rear brakes were binding. I suspected handbrake was seized, but how come when as it's all been freed up recently? I've taken off one drum and found the handbrake mechanism ok but the shoes don't return properly even though it's all been cleaned out and greased up. I'm going to try some new return springs and re-grease everything cos I think the (very) old ones must be too weak.

Back to the judder....I suspect the intermittent binding brakes must be making the judder much worse as it's putting extra strain on the clutch plate / flywheel contact, with a bit of luck I won't have to go near the flywheel.

[Hell Driver]

Just finished replacing the rear brake springs and re-greasing everything. Been for a test drive, seams to have done the trick, no binding and virtually no judder. I think once they start binding a bit, the excess dust and heat gums up the grease (by the way I mean copper grease, not ordinary ) and makes it even worse. I just hope the new springs, regular cleaning and re-greasing, especially when towing a caravan, should stop it happening again. The flywheel probably is very slightly warped but I'll not be messing with that for now.

[Chris_C]

I've had a servo (well, it's not really the servos fault... but hang in there) cause these symptoms before, but with all 4 wheels. Brake pedal mount/pivot seemed to have got bent with excessive keen-ness at some point and the vacuum wasn't draining properly, causing a small amount of holding on. As it got hotter, it all expanded and bound it pretty much solid. Pedal got really high and hard during this which is how I finally managed to suss it.

Diagnose by putting your left boot under the pedal and heaving upwards, if it is this then they will free instantly.

[griffo20022]

Mine does this too usually first thing in the morning after it's been sitting over night. When i fitted my lowering kit I noticed my CV boots had gone and assumed it was possibly the CV's on their way out?

Thanks for this as i've not had the drums off Vince since owning him and this could well be the cause of my problems also. I'll get checking this lot out in the not too distant future!

Nice one guys and glad to hear you got yours sorted out now Hell Driver

[Hell Driver]

Just been out for a longer drive but still not all that far. I still think the brakes were dragging slightly once a bit (but not for long, a few quick stamps on the brakes cured it) The judder is still there at times and seams to get worse with town driving. This brake/flywheel effect thing is really difficult to pin down and very annoying as the car ran fine for several hundreds of mile since the 1st of June when I put it on the road, with only a slight judder. I'm not giving up yet, just got to keep going till I find out whats going on.

It's worth checking whats going on in the rear brake drums they do get messed up with dust and rust, also the handbrake mechanism can seize on if you leave it on for a long time when the car's not in use esp. in winter.

Thanks Chris. I'll check the pedal to see if thats whats happening.

[Hell Driver]

Just been checking the brake pedal and found that occasionally it IS sticking down, very very slightly. I was driving forwards very slowly on a slight slope, pressing the brake to hold the car and then release it. Most of the time the car rolled back down but occasionally it held on the slope even with the brake released. I pulled up under the pedal and then the car rolled back a bit. Could well be the problem.
Thats why the new springs and re-greasing has helped but not totally cured the problem. Thanks Chris

[Chris_C]

No worries mate. I've yet to find a proper solution to it, I can't find what is causing it to not do vacuum. I'm guessing the pedal pivot has bent over the years and will need a BFH or similar... but want to be sure first!

[Ride_on]

Sometimes lubrication is not enough, I remember that if the 340 sits around for a while the hinge in the rear brake linkage can seize up with rust. It needs continual soaking in WD40 and working free off the car for 15 minutes or so until it is free moving.

[Hell Driver]

Just thought it would be useful to update with the latest developments:

The breaks have now stopped sticking on (a problem which was cured by lifting the break pedal up with your foot as mentioned above)

The clutch judder has (fingers crossed) cured it's self. Just towed the caravan to Anglesey. All without any judder in first when setting off or driving in slow traffic. I can only put this down to the thrashing the clutch/flywheel got whilst reversing the caravan up the steep slope on our drive. The smell of burning clutch as I inched my way up and around a corner was worrying at the time but may have cured it.

I'm now back (for work) having abandoned wife and child in the middle of windswept but wonderful anglesey. Nice drive back (without carvan ). Donny to Anglesey with c.van and back in one day, 370 miles! Popped into to see Dai (thanks for the chat) regarding parts for the Mk1 project. Got back at 2.45 AM after also dropping off parts for paulvolvo in Manchester. Don't you just love the roads in the wee small hours (only problem was up again at 7.30 for work and a further 100+ miles in the truck )

Wonder what the record is for miles in one day in a 300?