Vario and hills

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jtbo
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Vario and hills

Post by jtbo » 04 Apr 2012 03:20 am

I consider myself somewhat skilled in driving with small amount of fuel, but all my tricks are for diesel and manual transmission. Now I'm thinking how to use least amount of petrol with vario.

Here is height profile of the road I must use, scale is about 30km from 0 to end, that is just one way, so it is twice of that to make a shopping trip:
Image

I know of BSFC maps, but those are mostly useful in acceleration and avoiding pitfalls of some engines, of course there is none for b14.3e.

Generally driving up to a hill requires highest gear and lowest rpm that car is still going up to a hill for lowest fuel consumption, for acceleration one wants typically max torque rpm with around 70-80% of that max torque in use controlled by throttle pedal.

With vario there is no control over gears, just throttle, so keep throttle as it was allow speed to decrease or add throttle in hope to maintain speed so one would clear hill faster and with less added fuel consumption over 1st option?

French crap goes under 5l/100km on that route, vario might not, but trying to figure out best method is something that I would like to try :lol:

I guess vario system is not allowing putting neutral on downhill and D at end of downhill, one must be stopped to change gears?
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Chris_C
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Re: Vario and hills

Post by Chris_C » 04 Apr 2012 10:42 am

What you need Jani, is a flow meter on the fuel line tied to a GPS feed and all data logged ;)

Infact... if you could put get rear wheel speed, engine speed (that exists, tacho feed) and throttle position... You'd be able to plot a "fuel used per gradient and throttle position" 3d surface, which would be pretty sexy!
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Re: Vario and hills

Post by macplaxton » 04 Apr 2012 11:22 am

jtbo wrote:French crap goes under 5l/100km on that route, vario might not
:lol: vario WILL not!

The only vario I had that drunk less than 5l/100km was this:
Image

Ok, I haven't done much and not a slow or economical driver. Best I've managed is about 8.3 on a run, but I'm generally doing 10/11. That's why I use the Citroen quite a bit as even when running crap it will do less than 9. I should really dig out one of my Sparkrite trip computers....

Maybe if you do the MY87 modification and add a fuel shut-off relay, so the idle jet is switched off at times. That might make the economy better on downhill runs.

Alternatively, chuck the whole carb set up in the bin and go EFI, but it will take a while to recoup the cost of the conversion.
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Hell Driver
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Re: Vario and hills

Post by Hell Driver » 04 Apr 2012 01:03 pm

Yes, you are correct, a vario cannot easily coast and be put back in drive whist moving, although you can take it out of gear whist moving (this is not all advisable). You will have to stop to engage drive from neutral. I do seam to remember however that at low speeds it was possible to rock the top of the lever which disengaged the clutch. Road speed could then be picked up on decent with the lever already in drive. Application of throttle then re-engaged the clutch but only at low speeds or the vario would be in the wrong ratio for the road speed and a severe jolt could be felt, no doubt risking damage! This was in the 77 car I had so later ones may be different?

Again DO NOT try this as damage may be occuring when doing this. I only found this out by messing around many years ago and quickly worked out that it could severely damage things if used regularly or too abruptly. It's also not safe for driving in traffic.

Another similar feature was that when parked on a hill and setting off without accelerator (rolling start) if you left it too long press the pedal, when you finally did press it, you would get a big jolt, I assume for the same reason. This is something which can happen by accident, for example slow moving stop/start traffic down a steep hill.
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Re: Vario and hills

Post by jtbo » 04 Apr 2012 07:14 pm

Chris_C wrote:What you need Jani, is a flow meter on the fuel line tied to a GPS feed and all data logged ;)

Infact... if you could put get rear wheel speed, engine speed (that exists, tacho feed) and throttle position... You'd be able to plot a "fuel used per gradient and throttle position" 3d surface, which would be pretty sexy!
Tacho signal was from coil in these old machines from my memory?

It would need however two flow sensors (return line, well if vario even had one, can't remember), finding petroleum grage flow sensors cheap might be bit of a challenge, then it would need magic box that counts difference from sensors.

I had usb GPS mouse, but at the moment it seems just be warming, does nothing else, maybe wire is bad or something else is wrong, but USB plug is annoyin to measure and there are no any females around. Errr, that came out bit funny :P

I have that Android thing, which sadly is not outputting Nmea, limitation of software in that thing, but I got that height map with it, process is just tad horrible, includes sending files to two websites etc, also it is not for each second. Maveric software is only one that seem to be able to grab position and height even at some frequenzy.

I have still full setup for injection conversion, but B200. For 343 proper setup would be however such that is made from old carb, 1-point injection, would be easier to install. I don't think that I will do that to vario though as I try to get it into old car registration which would make it free from taxes, that would buy tank or so petrol in a year as cost savings.

There is some solenoid on carb, but it might need some wiring work to get it work as MY87 I guess? I know that in 360 I have black box bolted to side of engine bay, which controls probably that function, not sure what controls carb solenoid in vario.

Maybe easy solution would be to add a switch to cut +12V feed for that solenoid which is in carb, that way I could cut fuel at longer hills. How about vacuum to clutch control, could it be used to make drivetrain disconnected by flip of the switch?
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Re: Vario and hills

Post by macplaxton » 04 Apr 2012 09:13 pm

The declutch servo only delays engagement of the clutch, it does not prevent it.
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Re: Vario and hills

Post by jtbo » 05 Apr 2012 12:04 am

macplaxton wrote:The declutch servo only delays engagement of the clutch, it does not prevent it.
Ah, then it would need carb bypass, solenoid to open path for air to go past carb so that there would be less restrictions. However I think that such might be bit excessive for classic vehicle :lol:

BTW, I did read about study where they did fill diesel car with E85, replaced injectors with spark plugs and put TBI with custom brain, result was that with 19:1 compression it did work fine, 40% efficiency or so, might be of course faster and more quiet than diesel, so there is project idea for 340 diesel :mrgreen:
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Re: Vario and hills

Post by jimknc_volvo340 » 05 Apr 2012 02:21 am

Hi,

This is probably the wrong link to put this on but its recent and addresses CVT's.

Please could you guys state:

1. Is the clutch plate the same as the one in manual 340's?
2. If it is different, where I could source a replacement clutch or clutch kits for my G reg 340 CVT?
3. I've read that its useful to have spare/extra shims. Can these still be sourced if so please can some one advise where?
4. Please could you guys advise part numbers for all/any of the above.

Thanks

Jamie

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Re: Vario and hills

Post by nvdw » 05 Apr 2012 01:59 pm

jtbo, the best thing about having a variomatic is that it automatically selects the appropriate gear in hilly situations. You could win some by adding that fuel cut-off feature but methinks you would need to have a Renix ignition system for it to work. Apart from that, it's mainly building speed going off the hill so you gain speed before going up again... but that's Hypermiling 101 to be honest and not very vario-specific.

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Re: Vario and hills

Post by jtbo » 05 Apr 2012 10:34 pm

Coasting at neutral would be best for downhill situations, or with least restriction.

But it is really just theoretical thinking more or less, I will probably not modify much at all that vario, but then again, I will probably not use it on longer trips anyway, just when going to local shop, rest of time it will sit at shelter :lol:
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Re: Vario and hills

Post by macplaxton » 05 Apr 2012 11:41 pm

jtbo wrote:I will probably not use it on longer trips anyway, just when going to local shop, rest of time it will sit at shelter :lol:
Best used the other way around. Better fuel consumption on longer runs and less exhaust rot and other problems of cars that only go to the local shops.
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Re: Vario and hills

Post by jtbo » 06 Apr 2012 12:04 am

macplaxton wrote: Best used the other way around. Better fuel consumption on longer runs and less exhaust rot and other problems of cars that only go to the local shops.
It is 10km trip when I visit local shop.

Exhausts are not that expensive, compared to fuel difference, despite I have another idea, which I make new topic.
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Re: Vario and hills

Post by macplaxton » 06 Apr 2012 12:16 am

6.21 miles is still short.

I will fill the BB up in the morning. 45km to work. :(
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Re: Vario and hills

Post by jtbo » 06 Apr 2012 12:18 am

macplaxton wrote:6.21 miles is still short.

I will fill the BB up in the morning. 45km to work. :(
Petrol station owner smiles with very wide smile when he sees you driving to pump :lol:
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Re: Vario and hills

Post by macplaxton » 06 Apr 2012 12:26 am

I'll wipe that smile off his dial when I eventually get this dizzler recomissioned. :wink:
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