STARTER MOTOR MAKES A CHOKING SOUND?

[Justin]

I don't think that swapping the solenoid will help you all that much. TBH I reckon you need to strip the entire starter out and see what's happening.

But before you go to all that trouble, just make sure the starter is in completely straight, and there's no rusty bits on the mating surfaces between the starter and the clutch housing. If the starter and the flywheel are very slightly out of alignment then the Bendix gear might be jamming slightly and not slipping back out as it should. Its unlikely but worth checking because its a lot easier than trying to take apart the starter.

So apart from that, you'll need to take apart the starter and start checking bearings for play and float. If its been off a car for ages or sat in a scrappy getting damp and rusty, no knowing how much rubbish is in the places where nice shiny metal should be, so you might need to strip the whole lot down clean off all the old sticky oil/grease and re-lubricate it properly.

Good luck.

What was wrong with the old one? Can you swap parts about from the two duff ones to make one good one?

I reckon the reason my starter motor makes such an awful coughing sound when I start it each time is because its not lined-up correctly due to not having the metal locating dowel in place?...

My car has a Paris-Rhone D9E66 starter motor on it...

[Justin]

UPDATE: I removed my starter-motor this morning to discover that the metal locating dowel was still in place. I sprayed a load of WD40 inside the big opening on my starter-motor and low and behold, no more awful choking noise when I turn my engine over...

[Justin]

2ND UPDATE: I spoke to soon, my starters sticking again, gonna try some oil this time...

[mac]

OK people - I'm still on my sick bed but I have at least now got my BB connection back (for those who did not know, I lost my Internet service a couple of weeks ago and my ISP (very similar to shout shout) were as helpful as a housebrick. My answer was to change service and I'm only just back online).

Justin - do NOT put oil on the pinion (gear inside nose of starter) or the shaft it slides on - clutch dust will rapidly "gum up the works". If anything oil should be cleaned off! The ONLY part of the starter motor that enters the clutch/flywheel housing that needs lubrication is the bronze bush that the pinion shaft is carried in (in the nose of the motor casing). Even that bush should only be force oiled on installation and then wiped off.

Your problem sounds very like the pinion gear sticking in the flywheel teeth (the sound is the pinion overrun cluch) caused by a degree of "burring" on either the pinion or flywheel teeth.

Visually check the flywheel teeth for damage (through the opening in the clutch housing) and ensure the pinion teeth are undamaged. Thoroughly clean the starter pinion and shaft and apply a tiny drop of oil to the nose bush. Do not oil the pinion itself or its shaft. If slight burr damage is seen on the flywheel teeth they may be dressed with a file - if the pinion teeth are damaged then change the pinion.

Mac.

[Justin]

By flywheel teeth do you mean the large circular wheel inside the bell-housing (the part of the car that the starter-motor connects to?)

Diagrams or photos are always far more helpful than words, well to an idiot like me anyway...

[macplaxton]

By flywheel teeth do you mean the large circular wheel inside the bell-housing (the part of the car that the starter-motor connects to?)

Yes.

[Justin]

If slight burr damage is seen on the flywheel teeth they may be dressed with a file - if the pinion teeth are damaged then change the pinion.

Im guessing the pinion teeth are on the circular wheel inside the actual starter-motor and if so then why couldnt these be dressed with a file aswell? Also, would this then remedy the starter from sticking again?

[mac]

The flywheel is much, much more expensive - and far more work to change than the pinion hence the suggestion to "recover" the flywheel teeth. If you want to try a file on pinion teeth damage - fine but they are easy to change (if you know what you're doing) and can be sourced from rebuilders such as Wood Auto (google them).

The starter works by the solenoid engaging the pinion gear into mesh with the flywheel (by a pivot arm) and at the same time causing the starter motor to turn by passing 12v+ through the solenoid contacts. Releasing the key de-energises the solenoid and an internal spring SHOULD pull the pinion gear back out of mesh. Burrs or damage to either or both of the mating teeth (pinion and flywheel) can cause the pinion to stick in the engaged position momentarily. When the flywheel speed exceeds that of the pinion speed (ie.the engine starts and runs) the pinion overrun clutch operates - and that's the noise you hear. Almost invariably that is enough to throw the pinion out of mesh.

So yes removing the teeth damage (whether by repair or replacement) will stop "the starter from sticking" - always assuming that the problem you have has been correctly identified.

To forstall your next question - you can examine the flywheel teeth by looking in through where the starter mounts and turning the engine over (clockwise from the front) using a socket and ratchet or bar on the crank pulley bolt.
To forstall your next, next question - turn the engine clockwise to avoid the chance of loosening the crank pulley bolt.
When turning the engine over remove the spark plugs first - it will be much easier.

Mac.

[Justin]

This is all too overwhelming for me Im afraid! Both my original starter motor and current secondhand one do/did the same thing. I ran my original one until it packed up completely which Im planning to do with the current one.

I will check the flywheel like you said next week and the wheel inside the large "open-end" of the starter motor which I guess is whats known as the pinion? Where I will go from there is anyones guess!

It would be very interesting to fit a brand new starter motor to see whether it would still make the same noise?

[Chris_C]

It would be very interesting to fit a brand new starter motor to see whether it would still make the same noise?

No, *if* the flywheel teeth are damaged (which you are going to check, so will know) they will in turn damage the new starter pinion (you correctly identify, it's the toothed wheel inside the opening of the starter motor)

The pinion is made of a softer metal than the flywheel for exactly the reason Mac has said, it's a lot easier to change. You always aim to scrap the cheap easy bit. If they are damaged (which you'll tell when you inspect it, we can probably find photos for you to compare to and you can always post photos for us to look at) we can then tell you what "dressing with a file" is if you need. So, a nice shiny new one will get wrecked within a week or so if the flywheel is munched.

[Justin]

Thanks, this is a great help. I will check for burring on the flywheel teeth when the weathers a bit warmer and then get back to you. It might be cheaper and easier to replace the entire starter motor instead of changing the pinion (depending on what I find). If my flywheel is munched and beyond repair by filing then I will just run my car until it packs up all together and scrap it!!