Clutch Judder

Post by **SoLaMaNdA** » 11 Jan 2007 09:19 pm

I've been having an odd problem for a while. When the car is cold I sometimes get clutch judder as it bites. The only way to stop the judder is either use alot of revs and a faster action - which I don't fancy as I like my clutch! The judder goes completely once the car has warmed up.

I'm wondering if its an odd problem nothing to do with the clutch, maybe the carb? I suspected oil on the clutch and tried a cleaner on the plates (by running the engine with clutch disengaged and spraying through the access holes.

Any ideas?

Cheers

Post by **SteveP** » 11 Jan 2007 09:37 pm

My car does this too, occasionally - again in cold weather. After a couple of times lifting and the clutch biting it clears. As far as I'm aware its a common problem, I think Andy mentioned it happening on his car with a brand new clutch in it

Post by **SoLaMaNdA** » 11 Jan 2007 09:41 pm

Could it be light rust on the plates? I've not had this problem before on 360s, not even after being left undriven for months!

If its normal that's a relief, I need this car to be reliable.

Post by **pettaw** » 11 Jan 2007 10:43 pm

Yeah, my car does it the first few times you start off in the morning, but only when its cold and damp. It doesn't do it at all in the summer. Its worse particularly if you pull away using minimal revs and gently. I've found if I rise the revs up to 1500 ish it goes away.

As far as I know I've got no oil contamination on my clutch and the engine seals should be in good condition, the whole engine was rebuilt just over a year ago

Post by **foggyjames** » 11 Jan 2007 10:46 pm

It's a very common 360 problem. Mine does it when the clutch is getting hot, and occasionally when the car is first driven. It can't be much other than contamination, or a weak spring. My car has done it from being about 5 years old. A new clutch improved matters for a while, but it came back a couple of years later.

cheers

James

Post by **Bilbo** » 11 Jan 2007 11:27 pm

mine too does this ,but then goes after a 1/2 mile or after 2or 3 junctions/pull aways.......only in the winter never happened inthe summer.

Post by **foggyjames** » 11 Jan 2007 11:40 pm

That's an intersting point actually - I agree that it does seem to mainly happen in Winter. Hmm...!

cheers

James

Post by **shimon340** » 12 Jan 2007 01:18 am

just a random idea, Nissan had issues with water being aborbed into their rear brake shoes making the brakes squeal ie fast judder of the shoe, until it had been used a few times and warmed up. The problem was water being absorbed slightly into the shoes friction material. It only presented itself in winter or very damp cold days.

this was solved by changing the composition of the friction materal and binning the old ones on cars that came to dealers.

clutch plates and brake pad shoes are similar materials. Could the damp be the problem here with the friction plate?

This just occured to me, saying it, I dont 100% believe it as if true it would affect lots of other cars and most likely only one clutch manufacturer. Also, a weak spring would be also isolated to one clutch manufacturer and wouldnt be a 360 problem so generally.

the 360s do have longer lasting thicker clutches than other B19 and B20s due to the long time needed for the clutch. Ive heard of 360s getting to 120k on one clutch ( volvo dealer friend ). the fact it exists after a clutch change is interesting unless the same spec clutch was used ( volvo used sachs on the B14s so maybe its sachs also on the 360s )

it seems to be something on the car side then, clutch cable or fork once they are cold..... interesting

S

Post by **shimon340** » 12 Jan 2007 01:27 am

forgot to mention

almost all of the clutch judder cases Ive dealt with tend to be incorrect adjustment of the release mechanism. for nissan thats the hydraulic system meaning the thrust bearing isnt push far forward enough making for difficult gear changes and juddering engagement of the clutch.

careful tho, if the bearing doesnt retract fully, the clutch wont fully engage meaning an early expiration of the friction plate. Currently, weak pressure plates are finishing off the friction plate rather soon also.

could it be the bearing isnt fully releasing due to the cold? the clutch cable would be marginally shorter when cold so you wouldnt fully engage the clutch till it expands a little?

Post by **petefarrell360** » 12 Jan 2007 07:07 pm

It does seem to be a common problem. My old GLT did it in the winter months, and within 2 miles of home at the two junctions I'd have to stop at. After that, it would be fine.

As Andy correctly mentions, if you try and let the clutch up gently with low revs, even no throttle at all, it makes it significantly worse, more revs and a quick clutch release makes it more bearable.

On my current GLT, the clutch was replaced by the previous owner, at a mere 70000 miles. When I quizzed him on this, as I was sure the original clutch wouldn't have been worn out, unless it had been abused, he said it had started juddering! I don't think it was a genuine Volvo clutch it was replaced with. So far it's not juddered once. So, it might for once be a good thing not having a genuine Volvo part, but only time will tell as to the lifespan it will give me.

Pete

Post by **pettaw** » 12 Jan 2007 07:07 pm

There isn't an auto adjusting mechanism on these cars like there probably is on the Nissan. The release bearing can't not release fully unless the pedal catches on something at the top of its travel and it would have to be adjusted WAY too high for that, like several mm higher than the brake pedal.

The release bearing is fully releasing on mine, there's plenty of slack in the pedal and I've got it all adjusted to factory spec, with a Volvo clutch kit on it. Its just a design thing, and probably related to cold and damp linings being a little more prone to judder.

Post by **Ali** » 12 Jan 2007 09:56 pm

Yup mine does it on cold mornings too

Post by **jtbo** » 13 Jan 2007 12:51 am

Mine does it too, started after they did replace clutch at one garage, also after that it has much less bite, fast shift from 2nd to 3rd causes noticeable slip and even I have adjusted it carefully it does not bite more.

I think it is some cheap pressure plate they did use when they put it back together, still it did cost nearly 500€ for a job and parts

Post by **foggyjames** » 13 Jan 2007 01:12 am

Can't say I blame them charging you that much Jani - it is a horrible job!

My clutch is slipping on the 360 on even remotely hard shifts...you really have to baby it into the next gear...lift right off, then re-apply. I hope a nice new one sorts it out. It should do, as it never used to slip. A lightened flywheel (and eventually complete rotating assembly) and shorter gear ratios should make it less prone to slipping anyway.

cheers

James

Post by **V6 Man** » 13 Jan 2007 01:17 am

At a guess I'd say it was moisture getting to the clutch plate via the flywheel sensor holes forming a light rust coating on the flywheel and pressure plate. You'd be suprised at how little time it takes for such a coating to form - overnight is plenty of time.

I never had this prob on my 340 or 360 but they were both non Renix cars and so had no flywheel sensors and thus no holes in the top of the bellhousing. I do however get it occasionally on my manualised 760 which does.