car car car!

Post by **Chris_C** » 20 Mar 2007 02:44 am

A M R wrote:i went balls out at outdoor go karting and i survived that and i think i drove excellent, only my stamina ran out. i had the thing at its limit on every corner and the g forces were incredible (especially when your sat in a kart that the seat is too big for you, the straps dont hold you in properly, the helmet is too big and falls over your eyes so you cant see, and the foam pad on the wheel falls off after extremely hard driving). i still did not find my limit after that karting.

Where abouts was this karting AMR? I've never heard of karts with straps... I've not done much, but I know thundercarts dont. With karting, like all motorsport, its a piece of p*ss to get round the circuit at a speed you think is fast, until you see the times. I'm not that slow and the closest I've EVER come is within 1.5 secs of the fastest lap, and that was on a fairly short track.

Agree with Jani too, try some autotests and autocross events, that'll show you where you're skills lack, the autotests at slow speed too.

Post by **foggyjames** » 20 Mar 2007 03:36 am

To be honest, if you've got into trouble and got out of it, it's probably the car, not you...unless you're some sort of driving ninja (which, at 17, you won't be, to be fair). A well balanced car, and one which has been designed to help out the driver, will let you get away with murder. Taking out an early 911 or a TVR and trying to drive it as hard as you can will probably end in tears...whereas (despite 'the limit' being much lower) a 300 will be less likely to throw you into the nearest wall without warning.

In other words, YOUR limit is your ability to know when the car is on the limit, and to push it no further. If you lose control of the car and you weren't expecting it, you've passed your limit. If you get out of it from there, thank the guy who designed the car. I've done that a few times...changed my underwear...and never done it again.

And just to prove that old gits are just as prone to it, we'll have to dig out the footage of Rupert nearly killing the pair of us on a roundabout

cheers

James

Post by **redline** » 20 Mar 2007 08:42 am

A M R wrote: . i went balls out at outdoor go karting and i survived that and i think i drove excellent, only my stamina ran out. i had the thing at its limit on every corner and the g forces were incredible (especially when your sat in a kart that the seat is too big for you, the straps dont hold you in properly, the helmet is too big and falls over your eyes so you cant see, and the foam pad on the wheel falls off after extremely hard driving). the chain snapped and one of the pedals broke, still did not find my limit after that karting.
from this i hope you can see why i think im invincible

Post by **Ronnie** » 20 Mar 2007 10:20 am

Intreresting reading Here Re the computer game / RL driving dynamic...

Dude, just because you haven't crashed yet does not mean you haven't reached your limit. It's a numbers game. You can push your limits for so long and get away with it and think you're the greatest. But eventually the odds will catch up with you. It's when something unexpected happens that the shit hits the fan. The kid runs out into the street, there's patch of diesel on the road, there's an oncoming vehicle straying over the line. You need to account for what might jump out at you unexpectedly, other people's stupidity and of course your own fallability. It's not a video game, people can get hurt.

Take it easy out on the roads, particulalry when you are low on experience. And as others have said - if you want to rag it do it on a track.

Post by **jtbo** » 20 Mar 2007 11:17 am

Ronnie wrote:Intreresting reading Here Re the computer game / RL driving dynamic...

We have had a laugh for that 'study', there was no single simulator used, they even say that result would be different if different games were used and games they picked were very common against F&F idiots which also happen to be most likely bad drivers that are not using their brains on roads.

Only reason study is made is to make parents worry and perhaps some other purposes which are not quite clear, anyway there has no been any intention to find out what is really a truth.

Don't be mislead by such silly purpose aimed studies.

And for crashing, at some point I'm sure anyone will crash if driving fast is what one does, question is where you would like to crash and how and fit driving to that, as crashing is 100% sure in fast driving, it does not help even if you would be Schumacher he has crashed too and quite damn many times, rally drivers all have crashed and pretty many of them when not rallying too

When crashing there are those innocent people on road that are in danger, also those that are not on road, for example if your car rolls out from road and ends up to some yard where kids were playing, crushing them death, would that be nice thing to have in mind rest of life?

So always plan, understand how crashing is not possible to avoid and drive on public roads so that if something comes up, it won't cause any problems for you to avoid it, let it be dog running to road or exploding tire, or that granny reversing to road from yard you could not see because of bushes or some kid that has watched too much F&F and played Need For Speed is loosing control because he thinks he has learned to drive from those that are so unrealistic that they don't really teach you nothing and that you should be able to dodge and show true skills.

Post by **Ali** » 20 Mar 2007 12:59 pm

I'd definately recommend getting along to a track of some sort. There is absolutely no way you can reach the limits safely on the road, so much better to have the space to spin the car and actually see what thats like (having never span it on the road thank god lol). A 300 can get out of shape and unless you're REALLY going for it or the condition are appauling i'd think it would correct itself (when getting the tail out a few years back in my old 340 it would correct itself without me having a clue what I was doing).

I would say LFS does help with knowing how the car will react (although thats playing with a 900deg wheel) but it does need to be combined with real life driving.

Just get yourself along to a trackday in a 300 so that you know what it/you will do when it goes past the limits, at the last trackday I went to (in a mates Lex is200) we were hitting just over 100mph at the end of the main straight, a Supra span it 720deg on the entrance to the corner (so would have been 120mph+ i'd think) luckily with loooads of room as it was at Brunters airfield. I definately want to get the 360 along to one to see how it actually handles, brakes, etc instead of just intentionally breaking traction

Post by **jtbo** » 20 Mar 2007 01:34 pm

I learned a lot from this:
http://www.janiervast.com/videot/low/spin.avi

Bit wet track, I was not concentrating much, missed rev match and as a bonus there was bit oil in that corner, which would not been a problem if I would learned before that how concentrating is important and when you are tired you just make mistakes.

Imagine something similar to happen at roundabout, or some other places on road, things could end up much worse then, on track, just turn damn thing to right direction and wish no one is attacking corner while you sit there

I think today I would floor it there instead of kicking clutch down and hope rears will regain grip

Post by **IvanS.** » 20 Mar 2007 03:32 pm

Nice spin....too bad we don't have any kind of racing track to do such a thing.
If it happend on a roundabout you'll probably hit smt or smb.

Post by **germ** » 20 Mar 2007 04:43 pm

AMR you are very limited as you have 0% experience ,driving on the road day to day will teach you a lot you dont have to go fast to learn guys.

i went on a privet track one time and learnt a lot going round at 5 mph i think i did 10 laps at this speed then moved it up a pace there was no point going fast till i learnt the track i know it like the back of my hand now , this ment i could go faster that same day 50-60 laps later i could control spins and set relitivly good times.

^^that was the best birthday present ever me and my dad the whole day together in car driving at a friends track.

i think i have 2-5% experiance more will come with age and more driving.

no point rushing somthing like this take your time.

and have fun in a safe inviroment

whats the point in killing your self just to find your limites early????

Cheers
will

Post by **sven360** » 20 Mar 2007 05:36 pm

A M R wrote:
trackdays are possibly the safest way of doing this, but even this cant teach you your limits.

How so?Teach you a shed load more than a pc game.

A M R wrote:from this i hope you can see why i think im invincible

Invincible-no-mental -yes

.This has got to be a windup?

Post by **jtbo** » 20 Mar 2007 07:10 pm

sven360 wrote:
A M R wrote:
trackdays are possibly the safest way of doing this, but even this cant teach you your limits.

How so?Teach you a shed load more than a pc game.

A M R wrote:from this i hope you can see why i think im invincible
Invincible-no-mental -yes .This has got to be a windup?

True, track day really teaches a lot compared to any sim or whatever, but those who have played proper sim can learn faster on trackday

Hmm, why don't you do a small meet at karting track, where you could test who is V3M karting guru?

Post by **A M R** » 20 Mar 2007 07:24 pm

lol that invincible bit was a joke. of course im not, but because ive survived quite a few hairy situations, it feels as though i am. im sure the inevitable will happen one day, but hopefully not anytime soon

germ: of course i have experience. i drive all the time (yes i am insured on mums car lol)

i will try get myself down to a trackday sometime to see what the car's capable of, but also what im capable of. theres an old airfield just up the road to me, so i'll try and get in some practice up there.

foggy: there has never been a time when the car's got out of control without me expecting it. i always know when the car's at its limit and when i can push it harder, and when i cant.

chris: that karting was in canada. it was a sort of 'arrive and drive' thing where you just turned up and paid the money for the amount of laps you wanted to do. there were 2 types of kart; fast ones where you needed a license to drive, and slow ones where you didnt. i showed the geezer my provisional license and obviously he didnt know how the uk system works, so i got a faster one

karts werent that great, 4 stroke engines but i dont know what size and the handling varied from kart to kart, but they still gave you a good rush. nothing like proper karts though.

jani: i guess we'll have to organise a kart meet soon

Post by **A M R** » 20 Mar 2007 08:02 pm

okay a bit of good news now

rang the geezer up and had a chat with him. he wanted £250 for the car and i got him to stick in half a tank of petrol with it. just gotta send money through paypal now and its all mine!

might have a tailgate sorted as well if i cant get adams one. £45 delivered

finally the long wait is over...

Post by **foggyjames** » 20 Mar 2007 08:03 pm

A M R wrote:foggy: there has never been a time when the car's got out of control without me expecting it. i always know when the car's at its limit and when i can push it harder, and when i cant.

In that case, you're probably doing ok...but you can't afford to get complacent or cocky. It's far too easy to think you know it all...then you have a near miss, and you're reminded that you don't! One patch of oil in the wrong place, and you're being fed through a straw...

cheers

James

Post by **Chris_C** » 20 Mar 2007 08:37 pm

V3M karting I'll have sorted soon, it's looking to be about £25 for 25 minutes, 400cc thunderkarts on one of Britians fastest tracks do you?