few questions

[classicswede]

On the subject of carbs.
40's are quite good for a 2ltr in low atate of tune (but why fit them?)
45's are more the one for the job and if you are taking it far then go to 48's.
On a serious 2.3 then you will want a pair of 50's.

This is from years of experiance with amazons and 240's.

If you are using tb's then you can go a size down.

[A M R]

cheers mate. so i should look for some 45's if im going to be running exhaust system, cams and carbs?

also what can be roughly done in terms of suspension and brakes seeing as i want to use it for normal day-to-day driving and track days? would a 80mil drop be advisable on a set of 13's or is that too much?

[Duvel78]

[off topic] To AMR: being in very close contact with people in wheelchair, I can't really stand seeing your avatar picture > I remove it and I'm sure you'll find another one with a better taste. Thanks for your comprehension.

[foggyjames]

[off topic] To AMR: being in very close contact with people in wheelchair

Yes, we have to be sensitive to Rupert's feelings now he's getting old and not as mobile as he was

I'm not sure 45s are necessary on a 'fast road' tuned engine, especially when 40s are so much cheaper (and more common). If we're talking about race engines (7500rpm and above), then of course we want to be looking bigger, but I'd not get too hung up on seeking out a set of 45s if you're just looking to have a bit of fun with the car. For one thing, I'm not sure if 45s will bolt correctly to a standard (40mm?) DCOE manifold...anyone care to comment if the rear (i.e. to manifold) flanges on sidedrafts (they're all the same fitment) are bore-size specific?

Having said that I have been told by a man who "has actually been there"(!) that you WILL NOT get more than about 145bhp from a set of 40s, regardless of what they're coupled to....you need to go bigger to get more power. Hmm...I smell a bull getting ready to take a turd...but I could well be wrong, and I'm only at 140bhp at present, so I certainly can't prove anything first hand!

What I'm trying to say is that if you can get a set of 40s for cheap (IIRC my Solexes were sub £150 incl manifold...double that at least for a new manifold with DHLAs/DCOEs), go for it, whereas the cost of 45s (at least £300+, plus manifold?) might put you off. If you get a good deal on 45s....go for it! You'll be able to run larger chokes without getting bog...and give yourself the potential for more power at high RPM.

The established 'word on the street' is that the Solex versions of DCOEs/DHLAs (the DDH family...mine are ADDHEs) are lesser units. They're harder to tune, make less power, give poorer fuel economy, etc, etc. For the average user, 'horsecrap' is what I say. The accuracy of tuning is far more important than the type of carbs you use, and I bet there are only a handful of carb tuners in this country good enough to genuinely extract an advantage from any particular type of carb.

I suspect this reputation might have come from Solex carbs being harder to tune due to poor availability of parts, but it's cheaper to drill and solder jets than to buy them anyway, and off-the-shelf emulsion tubes will only be a rough approximation to 'correct' anyway - buy a book and learn how to modify them. I believe a great deal of development time was spent tuning carbs for a specific engine, and those emulsion tubes became 'stock' items....hence there is enough variation out there to be able to find a set of off the shelf emulsion tubes for a pair of DCOEs which will roughly suit most applications.

What I'm getting at is that sooner or later I'm sure you'll hear that Solex DDH series carbs are crap....and it's my belief that this has, in most cases, come from a bloke down the pub who's mates with this bloke whose Mrs' mum once said....you get the picture The guys at Power Engineering said something along the lines of "once you've got these dialled in, we've found they're every bit as good as DCOEs".

cheers

James

[A M R]

oh cheers mate. but whats all this about addh and dcoe? any reccommendations about books on carbs?

any takers for that brakes and suspension question? classicswede?

duvel78 - yeh i understand mate. no problem.

[foggyjames]

It's the model...
Weber DCOE
Dellorto DHLA
Solex DDH / ADDHE
etc

I bought these two books: Here and here.

Having said that, if you know people in the trade, it might be simpler to just go with their assistance. To effectively tune a set of carbs, you need a wideband oxygen sensor to be able to work out what your mixture is doing under all load conditions, and these cost upwards of £100.

My setup was just over £200, and includes a pretty gauge (PIC)

cheers

James

[Chris_C]

That second book is 12 quid on amazon, and is godly, my car would still run like a dog without it, and it's taught me a lot of the basics. And it covers FI as well as carbs

[garethreece]

Named driver is not always the cheaper option, local broker wanted £2k plus to be a named on mine so it would be £200 more than going on my own!

[A M R]

foggy - cheers for the info and nice guage!

gareth - so far ive been quoted almost £1200 full comp on a 360 gle with exhaust, rims, and suspension.

no takers yet for the question about brakes and what suspension setups work well for track (and road)???

edit - keep forgetting to ask this one, but does the 360 have power steering?

sorry for all the random questions guys, its just that i want to know everything before i get one so that i can get stuck in straight away with 'pimping' without having to ask all the qustions after something goes wrong/doesnt work. really really appreciate all the info keep it up.

[foggyjames]

Adam (340GLT) has done a brake upgrade...take a look around for that.

To make the cars 'really' handle well you wanna do some fairly major alterations, but for the most part you can get away with a set of springs on the front, lowering blocks on the rear, and shocks all-round.

Later 360s (roughly E plate and later) have PAS.

cheers

James

[Carl]

When I was considering the carb'd option 150bhp seemed to be the rough limit to twin 40s, as you'll need 36mm chokes which is the max size 40s will take. Probably just about ok for a midly tuned B200 (ie cam, exhuast, freer flowing filter).

So 45s would be a better all round option if you could afford them in the first place, but if you're sticking with the B200 lump with some 'fast road' tuning and money is tight then 40s will do the job.

AFAIK 40 and 45 sidedraft carbs share the same bolt pattern so I guess the manifolds would be the same.

One day I want a B230 powered 360 with twin 45s/48s, that would be awesome!

[foggyjames]

Well there's a curious thing....I'm making 140hp at 5500rpm on a setup which (with a better exhaust and an e-fan) was quoted by Volvo as making peak power at 6k (i.e. there is flow in the carbs and head, plus cam spec, for peak power at 6k). If I made peak power at 6000 instead of 5500 (assuming I sustained the same 133lbft @ 5500 necessary to achieve 140bhp), I'd be at 151bhp...and I'm running 32mm chokes. Ok, so there's quite a few 'Ifs' there, but hey...

What I'm wondering is if some of these figures have been worked out on Pintos, or something else with a crappy non-crossflow head....while the B200 530 is actually a pretty nice flowing head for a production car...shame they put the same head on the 2.3!

Of course I've not been there, and my bold claims / ideas that I'll be able to get heading rapidly for 170+ once I've done (possibly a lot of) further work may well prove to be total BS...but I can't see that the carbs will become a brick-wall limitation within 10bhp of where I'm at at the moment. Or to put it another way, I doubt a Civic Type R has a particularly huge throttle body.

If you balance a B230 (with a 531 head) to rev to 7000rpm, put a cam, an exhaust (but not a 'header') on it with a set of 45s, you'll see over 200hp with no further work. Scaling that down proportionately, that's still over 170bhp. I believe Bilbo's rally-spec B19 motor on 40s is making over 150 at the wheels?

cheers

James

[Nick C]

What I'm wondering is if some of these figures have been worked out on Pintos, or something else with a crappy non-crossflow head....while the B200 530 is actually a pretty nice flowing head for a production car...shame they put the same head on the 2.3!

I always thought the Pinto was a crossflow? It is a horribly rattly engine though, even in good condition!

[classicswede]

any takers for that brakes and suspension question? classicswede?

.

To get a good suspension springs blocks and damper with poly bushes gets you 90% there.

As to the brakes late 300 brakes are very good.

Vickys car with just NEW std discs, pads and recon calipers stops realy well. - just ask Steve

If you would like more info on supension etc pm me and I will give you my phone number.

[Bilbo]

Dellorto 45's we run !

cant find the sheets for carbs at the moment but looking at our sheets on injection peak power was at 6400rpm and the lbft between 4500-6400 is nearly a flat line. they were rev'ing it to 7900 but the curve just drops off! all 360's rev very well,but i dont think you gain anything in doing so.

for cheap 45's check out alphas in your local breakers,they also have a nice air box too. i've had my eye out for a roadworthy 75 twinspark for a while but can never find one up here......

by the way for some reason i was under the impresson 40 and 45's use the same body and 48's are bigger ??!!