If you get chance, i could do with some photos of how the front valance goes behind. My Mk1 is totally gone in this area and although I have a new one to put on, there will be nothing to weld it to at the back! Basically it's from the bottom (spot welded) edge of the front section up to where it meets the bottom of the radiator. I will have to fill in the gaps! No rush, it's likely to be months before I get to work on it. I could do with actually seeing one and getting a profile/measurements. It's one of the most extensive areas of missing, not just rusty, metal.

In the meantime HD, I'll throw this your way for a butchers until the photos turn up


thatcham_v343_18_1.jpg by macplaxton, on Flickr (clicky image for other sizes including massive)

Well we have had two pretty successful days on the car. We spent most of yesterday cleaning everything up with the wire brush attachment on the grinder, and chopping the rust out of the wing:


Then today the hard work started. I thought it best to start with the wheelarch as that seemed simplest and is totally hidden so it wouldn't matter how shoddy it looked. So the first thing was to cut out some shapes following some cardboard templates:





Then the welding started:



A fairly complete wheelarch now:


Welds cleaned up:





And painted to protect from the elements:


I'm quite pleased with what I managed to get done, and it wasn't really that difficult. Cutting the metal was a very fiddly job, but I was getting better as time went on. Please let me know what you think of my welding - be honest, because these bits aren't at all structural so it doesn't really matter, but I'd rather improve to do the more important bits.

Where I did get into difficulty was trying to weld upside down into the top of the wheelarch, you can see roughly what I was trying to plate over in these pictures, but it's hard to photograph. I just wan't getting enough penetration (though it didn't help that initially I had forgotten to switch the gas on after coming back from a break), and the welds were very weak to the extent that I took the plate off and I will start all over again next time. Any advice?



We also took the other wing off, which was much easier now I know how to get at the middle bolt. This is what lies beneath, again not too bad, although there's a huge chunk missing from the front corner.




The next job is to finish the inside of the passenger wheelarch, finishing off the structural bits, and then patch up the wing itself. I'm a bit worried about doing that, particularly as I want it to look good so I'll need to butt-weld and smooth everything down. Then repeat on the driver's side, then the rear passenger sill and inner wheelarch, and then I think we're nearly there. I'll need to have a look at MOT mechanicals then, I have a feeling that the driveshaft boots need replacing - any idea where these are available from? There are a couple of chassis welds to do near the fuel tank, but I will let the car fail an MOT and take it to a bodyshop to sort those as I draw the line at upside down welding near the fuel tank!! The brakes are useless too, so they may need a bit of attention.

I have a fortnight off in August, so I'm hoping to be able to do a bit more progress in the next month or so.

Finally - Andy I took some pictures of the valance for you - is this roughly what you were looking for, or did you want it from the inside/underside too?

Thanks, yes it's the underside/back that's missing on mine so more photos would be usefull. Those photos will help with seeing where the matt black ends and the colour paint starts on the inside of the valance however.

Looks like you're doing well with the repairs. Getting the metal clean enough for welding is tricky under the wheel arches, every bit of underseal/rubber stonechip stuff causes problems.

I see they undersealed (and over painted) the valance on the later Mk1. My '77 car had no underseal visible at all, not on the lower wings, sills or valance. I don't think it did a lot of good as the rot comes from inside anyway...apart from maybe the front valance which picks up a lot of road grit/stones. Even that still went mainly from the inside. If you want to do any preventative rust proofing, here's a tip. When I replaced the badly rusted front panel (headlamps/grill panel) l coated the inside of the replacement with wax-oil. I poured it inside hot and tipped it up end over end until it ran out through all the holes. It stayed perfect for the next 10 years! Bottom inside of the doors stayed good too after I poured it in there. Inside bootlid would be another place as I didn't do that and it fell to bits!

I expect you won't be using the car daily/winter anyway? so maybe no need to go to those lenghts, but mine was outside in all weathers and used daily.

This picture looks like you are laying metal over metal bud? I've never liked doing that, it creates moisture traps so will get the rot in super fast again. Paint won't wick between the metal but water will.

It looks to me like you have the power down a bit low, pictures make it hard to tell but I don't think you are getting much penetration there. More power is a pain as you start blowing holes but it's a case of just fiddling with wire speed and power until you find where your welder likes to weld that sort of metal.

Have you grabbed some spare 0.8 from a shop? If so, there are some good exercises to do, things like a 3x4" square, just run a bead along the very top edge, then overlap a bead onto that bead and continue until you have a very stripy bit of metal. You arn't joining anything, but if you can run a good bead on 1 bit of metal it's easier on two. Then just loads of scrap bits, find a place for the next bit and glue it on. Laying one bit flat and another upright giving a kind of T is good, you get to weld 2 beads for the same amount of metal.....

Dont be scared to use a drill for those holes either, the closer the patch fits the easier the welding is. When I do it about 90% of each patch is making a good fit patch, only 10% welding. But again, I'm far from any good at it yet

EDIT: to add
http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/

I've learnt a lot from the guy who does this. He has a video a week, just useful things you often don't think of. Even the arc and tig stuff can often be useful for us.

Welds look porous to me. Enough gas, no gas, too windy, tip too far away.

Hi mate.
I haven't a clue about welding so it looks spot on to me
The Lidl jack is handy though the bloody wheel fell of mine
Car looks to be coming along great.
Cheers Mark.

Thanks for your comments guys, it looks like I still have a long way to go! I might have to go back and start again, cutting out these welds and butt welding new metal as suggested. I shouldn't have problems with penetration then anyway.

Chris, the hardest bit I found was actually cutting out metal - snips and angle grinding plasma discs are just too brutal for the tiny areas I want to cut out. Is there something else I need to get, like a tiny plasma cutter, if such a thing exists? This is why I didn't cut them out.

You're right too that the shaping of the new metal takes 90% of the time.

What ever happens dude don't get disheartened. You've started on a place on the car that is not visible, and in the grand scheme has a lot of metal around it too, I've always considered that area less than structural else Volvo wouldn't have used self tappers at that point.

For cutting patches, I use a *good* pair of tin snips. Decent ones with bolt cutter like mechanisms (I'm dubious to recommend these at the price, but have had good stuff from tool station before http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Hand+To ... 410/p22692).

Cut your hole in the car. It's also a bit of an art form, you want to cut all the rust but leave enough of the original shape to know where to go from next. I used to be a big fan of cutting out a really big part, but I've found that doesn't work as well for me, I loose where about I am trying to work and what the complex shapes should be. Even welding a bit of "scrap patch" to some rust to give you an outer edge sometimes helps (I'm thinking about flares like wheel arches and wings here). Then make a card template that fits *exactly* even down to holes etc. If you can bend a bit of card to fit the hole exactly you can bend the metal too. Flatten the card, transfer to the metal, cut out with tin snips, drill the relevant holes etc whilst it's flat. Offer it to the car, compare to bends in card. Use your favourite metal bending techniques (vice, pliers, ball peen all count if they work for you). Dont go to far, offer it back to the car. Keep doing this until there is between touching and 0.5mm of gap all the way round the patch. Better fitting patch makes the easiest welding. When you are super happy, tack in a corner. Find everything has moved. Tap the patch if needed to reshape, get another tack in about an inch away. Keep going until it's tacked. Then, I do short burst, about half inch long, as I'm not good enough to run an entire bead yet without building up so much heat I blow holes or distort everything. Go to other side of patch, do another half inch. Keep going until it's seemed.

How I first started (which as you can see, lost a lot of the complex shapes. Whilst it looks like there isn't much penetration there, it is visible on the other side of the wing, the camera flash is screwing about though granted they are damn ugly welds and could be better.) Note, incorrect card used, NOT corregated, it doesn't bend as well.



Note all the detail that is missing, sad times and could do better.

New method, including some of the bits you are trying


Note complex shape where inner wing stops being vertical and does the inner horizontal to the self tapper holes.

It's not easy to see, but this "patch" welded between rust and fresh air follows that inner wiggly bit exactly, to give me something to aim the vertical piece to. Main horizontal also can be done as it's got clear edges from it's surroundings.

Process here was make card patch, tack weld in the vertical patch, then cut out the "wiggly bit" "patch" when you have it in the right place. Then seam weld the vertical patch in knowing the bottom line that has to be in fresh air is in the right place.

Then make the proper outer bit including the strengthening flick at the edge.

Grind back. I'm quite proud of this one, I had some help to do it mind, but it worked really really well I think.


Horrible picture, but the bit you are doing. Three patches in total in this pic. Holes were made before bending, before tacking.


All rest of surface rust removed with scotchbrite, treated and primed with Hammerite No.1 (I love this stuff)

Sorry for thread jacking, hope that might be a bit useful. Just remember everyone finds their own technique and that comes from practice. Cars are a swine to weld, they are made out of rusty thinness. I used to think apprenticed ship builders were awesome for their welds, but they are using new steel, give or take 7mm thick most of the time. They just turn the power up to 11 and have done. Thats easy compared.

It's also a good place to start. Think of some projects in 3mm or so steel that can use welding. Weld up a picture frame or pen holder or name plaque or something in 3mm. New steel, from the new steel shop, it's super cheap. Then think of a mini project in 1.6, so the same. Then 0.8, buying more 0.8 as you'll screw up a few times. Then next time you weld the car it *will* be easier. You will blow holes in bits that look good but that the rust has made super thin (equiv of 0.3mm almost a lot of the time) but you learn to deal with it. Once you can do all that, ebay becomes a place of possible awesomeness if only you had that really big barn and unlimited time!

We should have a Welding Tips sticky.
Great work you two.

Well I think it's time for a progress update.

I have had a little time off recently, and Mac came round a couple of times to give me a bit of an expert hand to sort out the inner wing and some butt welding on the outer wing.

Before that, I spent a solid couple of afternoons shaping some metal to form the missing parts of the wing. I was quite pleased with the results:





Mac then spent a day expertly sorting out the inner wing. He'll be the first to say that it isn't perfection, but it's a darn site better than I managed to do. It took all day to get it done, as it was very awkward to get at properly, and it was upside down.




Anyway, it's all solid now and covered with underseal, so job done.

Today, Mac came back again and we tackled the butt-welding of the outer wing. The welder was misbehaving to start with, but we changed back to the CO2 canister and it improved.




Anyway, on a trial fit it bolted in place like a dream, so I'm very happy. It was very nice to see the car with a complete wing again!


I just need to treat the welds to a skim of filler and then prime and paint them (and paint the inside), but that's a job for another day!

hi mate.
You three boys could start up the V3M welding company
Great work.
Cheers Mark.

Great work, well done you two!

Tom

I just LUV the way my bra-strap shows !

Mac- on my iPad, at a Days Inn at Wetherby, looking forward to playing steam trains.

Nice to see it coming together.

Was the welder a sealy or clark by any chance? They can be a right pain for tack welding as the gas does not flow till after the weld is started!