My car runs again :D (Some megasquirt stuff & informatio

[jtbo]

I made this horrible thing http://www.janiervast.com/gallery/v/alb ... 7.JPG.html, then I put it into my car, now my car don't have spark anymore, must continue looking into problem tomorrow.

I actually knew that this will happen but this is learning project for me, more errors just makes my knownledge wider and deeper.

It is now something with that terrible thing that I made or connection to megasquirt, well let's see what I can find out from this

Oh yes, reason why that circuit is so badly build is that I could not source any proto board, should be working just same way, even looks like shite That is just temporary solution now.

One thing forgot to mention, I'm using renix flywheel to trigger ignition, some say impossible, some say that maybe it is possible but have no idea how. Only few have revealed their theories how it should work.
Problem is that wheel has 2 places (180 degrees apart from each other) with missing 'teeths' and megasquirt supports only one.

[Ronnie]

What was it supposed to do?

[jtbo]

What was it supposed to do?

Convert sini wave from CPS to square wave so that megasquirt would understand it

[Chris_C]

I take it thats an op amp differentiator then Jani? Please tell me that you are going to protoboard it before you fit it to the car! That mess will short out on the first corner

I'm dubious, I can see 4 resistors on the circuit diagram, and 4 capacitors, but in the circuit I see 6 resistors and 2 capacitors!

[jtbo]

I take it thats an op amp differentiator then Jani? Please tell me that you are going to protoboard it before you fit it to the car! That mess will short out on the first corner

I'm dubious, I can see 4 resistors on the circuit diagram, and 4 capacitors, but in the circuit I see 6 resistors and 2 capacitors!

I did isolate thing with beatuful red electric tape, that should do it? Lol, maybe not, If I get this thing to regonize rpm, then I will buy proto board and make this to box.

There actually is 4 capasitors, bit hard to see from bad big, but larger pic shows them if you know what to look

Resistors I needed to do that way as I had no 50k resistors, so needed to make that number from three resistors.

I have no idea however is that circu.. eh.. mess working and I don't know how could I test it either.

I was planning today to test if there is signal coming out from mess, I believe that multimeter should tell this, just bit hard to test alone when I should be using multimeter in engine room and starting engine from driver's seat at same time

If that works, then it have to be in MS settings or connection to mess, if mess does not work then it does not and I need to figure out what would cause it to malfunction/not function at all.

Also I could try to connect mess to my laptop so I could look signal from scope, just need to adjust voltage level so that I won't fry my laptops soundcard

Yesterday I had not even single idea where to start, luckily brain works when one sleeps so now I'm filled with ideas

[jtbo]

There was no +5V for my circuit

I checked connections, all ok, after little measuring I found out that problem is in solid wire somewhere, insane. I made then new wire for it and what do you know, it seem to work, battery had only 10,6 volts left so it was like wou put, wou put, woooouuuu, click click,

Let's see after hour or so what will happen then

Project will just start when I get sparks, then need to find out timings etc. For example I have no idea what is BTDC angle when distributor arm is pointing towards cyl1 tower, I should gain this information to be able set all parameters correct, I believe, but I have no timing light or person to help reading what is real timings so things are not going to be easy.

Older man came to ask that was is wrong with car as I was working under hood, we chatted about megasquirt and he was bit confused, his car is parked next to mine at parking lot, Lada Samara it is

[shimon340]

hi guys!

what is protoboarding?? or whats a protoboard?

Im very interested at using megasquirt for ignition

are you working on a 360? what do you need for megasquirt to run igntion? rpm and load signal?

rpm from flywheel sensor
load signal from ?

what coil are you using?

Ive got ignition maps for the early 340s and am on a mission to get the other maps from volvos archives

[jtbo]

Ignition control for megasquirt, there is so many ways to do it, I chose Bosch module and renix wheel, I think nobody has not used Renix wheel before as it is not very well suitable.

You need to make this, you can see this assembled from link on my first post, but you really should use proto board, it is called also vero board, I think, board that has lot of holes and you solder components to it and make connections with jump wires.


I'm indeed building this to my 360, I have been running megasquirt with fuel only about an year now. Megasquirt has MAP sensor, it is used for fuelinjection as well as ignition if one adds that to megasquirt too.

Information from wheel decoder:
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra ... wheel.html

Information from ignition that I use:
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/setup-msns.html

From Ignition selection link on that page you can see all available options. Usually everyone puts 36-1 wheel in but for me that is much more difficulty than using weird renix wheel. I have no tools or skills to add extra wheel to crank pulley and then hall pickup, can't just glue that on place so I find it way too complicated.

Pressing buttons is what I find simple, others may feel this opposite of course.

I have one ignition map for Renix, don't know if that is B200K or E/F, but it is from Haynes and looks bit odd, I think pressure should be reversed 0=100kpa and 80=20kpa


However bit hard to get those numbers right from it as it is 3D illustration, would be great if you can source nice 2D ignition advance table

My car did not started yet, it almost did, but not quite, there is lot to research from wheel decoder settings until it works I think, also ignition advance is bit problem as I have no idea when it sparks, should use timing lamp that I do not have and also friend that is busy

here is link to startup datalog, I'm bit worried that one rpm shows something that could be ok and other shows some reading that F1 cars should get when driving!
Lot to learn with this indeed, but messcircuit works
http://www.janiervast.com/projekti/onge ... 171449.xls

[Chris_C]

Protoboard is as Jani says, board with holes, and can on one side have either lots of copper rows, or "lumps" spanning three holes. It's fine for small stuff, but if you are going to consider MS, you'll need the proper PCB for MS itself, this circuit Jani is making just converts signal types from the crank as the volvo (or whatever Jani is using) sensor give the data in a different type. I'm working on something similar for the 480 infocentre, hacking all the signals into something useful so that we can bolt them in

[pettaw]

I think pressure should be reversed 0=100kpa and 80=20kpa

That's right, cos the vacuum sensor for the Renix unit comes before the throttle plate so it works kinda in reverse to the Map sensor, with no vacuum when throttle is closed, rising to a maximum when the throttle is partially open and then no vacuum again when the throttle is fully open.

[antiekeradio]

I think pressure should be reversed 0=100kpa and 80=20kpa

That's right, cos the vacuum sensor for the Renix unit comes before the throttle plate so it works kinda in reverse to the Map sensor, with no vacuum when throttle is closed, rising to a maximum when the throttle is partially open and then no vacuum again when the throttle is fully open.

the above is correct, but that does not nescessarily mean that the pressure is inverted.

the word 'pressure' in the graph should have been translated with 'vacuum'

(druk = pressure, onderdruk = vacuum)

[jtbo]

Car does run now, only thing is that idle wen't up to near 2000 Need to check why, but it could be that new ignition is just burning fuel so much better, hmmm.
Well really I have no idea why it runs so high revs now, I did check bit of air leaks from hoses, but got nothing easily spottable and there was dark and bloody cold too so could not look too much into it.

Need to check more about it tomorrow when I can again see something out there.

One weird thing was that engine did shaked at all, not even slightest visible vibration at 2000rpm, maybe this will be improvement indeed

[pettaw]

it'll be you forgot to put back one of the hoses probably.

Its a weird thing, because if you have an air leak on the stock efi system, it goes lean and conks out, but if you have an air leak on MS system, cos it uses a MAP sensor, it adds extra fuel and so you end up running fine, just idle speed goes up

[jtbo]

it'll be you forgot to put back one of the hoses probably.

Its a weird thing, because if you have an air leak on the stock efi system, it goes lean and conks out, but if you have an air leak on MS system, cos it uses a MAP sensor, it adds extra fuel and so you end up running fine, just idle speed goes up

Well, I have been running Ms around a year now and this risen rpm seem to be direct relation to new ignition setup.

There was only one hose that was removed and that is vacuum for renix, that I have plugged and verified, to others I have not touched so that is why I'm very suspicious about air leak.

Must check tomorrow anyway and look all other things too. Anyway map is only around 30 when it was before around 40-50 when running cold, then it got up to 55 when warm but now it just stays around 30.
What I suspect is that renix advance was so much different that it made engine run heavily, maybe even renix was faulty.

Maybe I can now adjust throttle plate as it should be done, before that was not possible as it needed to be bit more open to keep engine running.

Well, we see tomorrow what will be experiences from this

[jtbo]

No air leaks at all, needed just little bit of adjustment and finally got throttle plate properly adjusted too

However there was few problems too, 2300-2500rpm was max what I got, felt like rpm limiter, then I adjusted wheel decoder to use older extra 24s9 like decoding and I got much more revs, still around 5000rpm there is like rpm limiter again and currently I currently have no idea how to make that go away.

So bit more working needed, but is perfectly driveable, also looks like that I got ignition map copied enough close from that pic as I did not found any problems from that area.

Of course need to check that timing is really what MS is showing, is possible that need adjust that. However for this check I would need to remove tube from airfilter to intake manifold and also one alternator belt as it seems impossible to see or check timing with timing light otherwise.

Car felt lot more powerful, maybe it was just imagination, well when road will get more grippy we will find out. One thing is sure, it starts lot easier and throttle pedal is lot more sensitive.