In the context of the current parts problem (dizzy caps & water pumps being deleted etc.) I've come across something which is worse - at least for PAS-equipped 360 owners as I can't find an aftermarket product either!

PAS inner tie rods (3343464) are no longer available - not from Volvo or anywhere else, and that will be an MOT failure for me in 6 months as mine have too much play in them. I've googled for hours, and spent 45 minutes at my local parts place going through pictures of various inner track rods, but they really are NLA. We found a Polish company called Kager who offer a track rod with the part no 41-0092 saying it is for a car with PAS, but the Volvo OE nr. they quote is for the non-PAS version.
http://www.kager.pl/kager/staticDispatc ... de/41-0092

So now I've started looking at recon racks. The cheapest offer I found is Eurocarparts (128 pounds for a RHD rack) - Mac suggested I ask them to contact their supplier to see if they can provide a LHD rack - but no luck.

So now I've got the following options:

URW (Netherlands)
30-84024
€ 479

Lizarte (Spain)
01.98.5360
€ 499

ERA Benelux (Belgium)
SR2567
€ 516

Also, there's a company not that far from me who are specialised in overhauling PAS racks:
http://www.motoso.de/businessinfo.htm?id=5510

but I haven't got a quote from them yet.

Does anyone have any experience with the above companies? And also - am I daft spending that amount of money on a 360, 500 Euros is around 400 pounds ? I need to consider the fitting too, which I can't do myself, and there are a few rusty bits which need seeing to as well ...

Tom

trabitom99 wrote: € 479, € 499, €516

Stuff that, it'd be cheaper to pull one from a scrappy. (If you can find one/if Germany has scrapyards)

if it was that much then I'd ditch the PAS!!! - I'd hunt down a second hand one if possible, though it is a concern that loads of stuff is rapidly becoming NLA. The way I see it, 300 ownership will go one of two ways, 1) it will force us all to develop many more performance parts (though not good for purists and locations with stringent mot's like yourself tom) or 2) many people will be driven away from 300's because of the inability to easily get hold of commonly failing parts.

I've no idea how PAS works, but on a standard rack you have an outer casing, an inner bit with "sockets" and the tie rods with "outers". Theres some extra twiddly bits with the ball and sockets, but which bits of yours have play Tom?

filthyjohn wrote:Stuff that, it'd be cheaper to pull one from a scrappy. (If you can find one/if Germany has scrapyards)

Sure Germany has scrapyards , and they're full with MkIII Golfs, mid-nineties Astras and Ford Fiestas ...
This isn't "Volvo 300 Paradise: UK" where you stumble across Black Beautys in scrapyards and leather-clad GLEs on Ebay every other week

Jason B wrote:if it was that much then I'd ditch the PAS!!!

The few cars who made it to Germany were base model 340s bought by pensioners who thought they were buying a Swedish car, or East Germans who had been fed a diet of Trabants and Wartburgs for forty years and were happy to snap up the last remaining stocks from Volvo NL cheaply after the wall came down.

360s are rare, 360 GLTs are very rare, and 360 GLTs with a cat with lambda sond, PAS, and electric everything are rarer than an A/C 300 in the UK. I was pretty chuffed to have found this particular example last year - the height of luxury on a German GLT is usually an interior light delay relay - even central locking costed extra. Swapping the rack for a manual one isn't really an option

It's not entirely straightforward either, I believe you also have to change the lower part of the steering column - and it would mean scouring Dutch or Belgian scrapyards to return with a rack which might also be past its best.

Chris_C wrote:but which bits of yours have play Tom?

According to Herr TÜV the steering has

* play in the track rod ends (same as non-pas, same as many 80's VWs, cheap as chips)
* play in the inner track rods (unique to Volvo 360 PAS, same for LHD and RHD, NLA)
* play in the rack (unique to a LHD '88 or '89 PAS Volvo 360 to which it was never fitted as standard.

I'm sure mac won't mind me quoting him here:

mac wrote:I'm very surprised that your rack seems to have play in both the track rod ends (quite common and easily fixed - the t/r/e joints are common to the manual rack as well) and to the rack itself (rack/pinion wear is not at all common). It is far more likely that an inner track rod joint has some play (these joints are under the rubber gaiters). If you grasp the rubber gaiter you will feel the rod and joint - get the 'boss' to waggle the steering wheel and you will feel if any play is present. The track rods are replaceable and they are also the same for LHD and RHD (though not the same as on manual racks).

"The boss" (and later the garage) confirmed this. Apparently play in the rack itself is minimal, and probably wouldn't worry the tester if the play in the track rod ends and inner track rods was reduced.

But since I can't get hold of inner tie rods, I don't really have a choice other than to buy a whole reconditioned steering rack if I want to keep the car

Tom

BTW, the friendly gentleman in the "Volvo for life" T-Shirt at the parts desk said had the inner track rods would've cost 150 Euros a piece, had they been available More than a whole recon PAS rack at ECP ...

Good luck finding a PAS rack in Holland...
The 360 I bought (in Berlin LOL) has PAS and I know of about 3 or 4 other V3C members who have PAS...

I would be very interested in a cheap way to keep my PAS functioning...

bodejodel wrote:The 360 I bought (in Berlin LOL) has PAS and I know of about 3 or 4 other V3C members who have PAS...

I would be very interested in a cheap way to keep my PAS functioning...

If you and the other PAS owners on V3C all send their racks in to ERA Benalux for reconditioning, then maybe we can get a group discount

Tom

I'd rather go to Eurocarparts and make them fix up the LHD racks too...

Pay them an extra 50 for it ahd they are still the cheapest...

Right, there has GOT to be a way of doing this more sensibly. Thoughts...

1) RHD and LHD tie-rods are the same, right? In that case, let's source you some from a RHD car with PAS.

2) Have some other rods (non-PAS?) machined to fit...which I imagine will entail having the thread changed.

I have some non-PAS rods here, and I can get access to a PAS rack. See where I'm going with this?

Tom...can you get me a pair of late model LHD wiper arms, please?

cheers

James

bodejodel wrote:I'd rather go to Eurocarparts and make them fix up the LHD racks too...
Pay them an extra 50 for it ahd they are still the cheapest...

They don't do the work themselves, but get their parts from external suppliers. The last time I rang they were still waiting for a quote and were saying "it didn't look good".

So far, I have two options. A new rack from Lizarte (they have them in stock), no deposit required. Or send my current one in to ERA for an overhaul.

foggyjames wrote:Right, there has GOT to be a way of doing this more sensibly. Thoughts...

Any plan which saves me €€€ is a very good plan At the moment I'm looking at around 500 Euros for the rack and 200 Euros for the fitting. All a bit depressing

I have to say I don't know much about steering racks and I've never seen a dismantled rack "in the flesh". Looking at the pictures of what tie/track rods look like, they're screwed at one end to the rack and on the other end to the t.r. ends. The parts which have play are presumeably the ball-and-socket (Chris' description) parts.

I'd assume something could be machined to fit. How would one track rod differ from another? I'd guess in length, thickness, thread (inside/outside).

Having some track rods made up makes very good sense. However there are some restrictions to that plan:

I'm not able to remove the rack myself due to lack of time, talent, and space. I'm sure it's not a problem for the garage to remove bits, wait for two weeks for them to be overhauled, and fit them - but it shouldn't really take longer than those two weeks as my car would be filling up their yard.

Windscreen wipers: I know of one guy in Germany who's breaking 340s at the moment (late MkIIs I think) and two other chaps who may have something in their parts stash. Then there's always V3C. What is a "late" wiper, when was there a changeover? I've got some wiper blades in the cellar with a spindle type fitting which don't fit on my Mk3s and wouldn't have fitted my '81 343 IIRC ...

Tom

Dunno if it's of any use but I do have a used 360 RHD PAS rack which could be used for mocking up new rod ends?

What's the difference with late wiper arms? I assume this is for your 343 foggy?

SteveP wrote:Dunno if it's of any use but I do have a used 360 RHD PAS rack which could be used for mocking up new rod ends?

With intact inner tie rods? I could use those The t/r ends are the same ones used on non-PAS versions (and you can use those from Golf 1s and Sciroccos apparently) ... Anyway, PM'd!

SteveP wrote:What's the difference with late wiper arms? I assume this is for your 343 foggy?

Now I get it. RHD 343s originally had the wipers on the same side as LHD cars. I'm assuming James wants to replace the spindle-type wiper fitting with the later "clip on the end" version?

Tom

Ah I didn't realise there was a difference actually!

Exactly right, guys. Up to....er...1981 might well be the last year...RHD 300s had LHD wipers. I'm struggling to find spindle-mount blades, but have plenty of the normal kind, so if I can get 'normal' LHD ones...

Steve, if you can spare those rod ends, and then Tom can send us the worn ones in return, we can look into alternatives.

Tom - usually, tie rod ball-joints (in fact, ball joints in general) fail because water and dirt get into them. In other words...are your rack gaiters in-tact? If not...replacing them may become futile frustratingly quickly. My Scan-Tech (spits on floor) gaiters have only lasted a year, but they were very cheap. Last time I asked Volvo (~18 months ago) both the gaiters and rods were available...at a price (although it wasn't that bad)...and more to the point on a 3 month lead time. Bugger...

cheers

James

Hi James,

Steve says his PAS rack only had the one track rod left on it, and was pretty clunky when he removed it, so if you have the chance to get to those track rods on the other PAS rack that'd be pretty cool ...

I can have a look this end and see if I can find a place which can overhaul them - but I don't know anyone in the trade so it's likely to be more expensive than if you know someone your end. Any overhaul would have to be significantly cheaper than ECPs rate for a whole recon rack (with new track rods) for it to make sense.

Shame about the Scan-Tech quality, last time I checked they were the only company still doing gaiters for the PAS racks (part no. 3343466). As with the track rods, they are unique to the 360 PAS rack.
http://tinyurl.com/5tbtum

As for the play in them - 12 years on cobbled East German roads might also have something to do with it

Regarding the 343 wipers, I have a set of NOS Bosch spindle-type wiper blades, but can also get hold of the LHD later type arms - just let me know what you need.

Cheers,

Tom