(granted it lacks low torque) but it still puts out lots moar powerzz than your 1.7 , 100bhp isn't bad for a 1.3 really, especially when in a car that will weigh about 820kg with all the rollcage etc fitted. Oh, and this also means that if I ever have some spare pennies then I can maybe put something a little more fun in the volvo

back on topic....

No point thinking of leaf springs, just multi link rear axle!
This was the remedy for rallying WAY back and now these kits are CHEAP!
O.K, there's no direct-fit kit for 360/340, but what if everyone who thought of development stopped at "no available kits"..

I think it depends on your goals. I think you can get the leaf / de dion setup to perform pretty well for road use up to say 200bhp...but beyond that or for competition use, I think it's going to struggle. My plan is to stick with the standard setup (with stiffer bits) for the 343, but consider multi-link for the 360, depending on how the standard stuff copes with 250+bhp.

I'm thinking I'll probably end up with multi-link on the 360, eventually. The phase 1 V70 AWD rear subframe is fairly compact (whereas the RWD IRS units aren't, particularly), and I'm sure there are loads of suitable units outside of the Volvo family.

cheers

James

I'd keep the de-dion setup and replace the leafs and dampers with coilovers and appropriate links if I was serious about an adjustable setup for track use etc. However leafs can be used for high power... just depends how big your balls are when it comes to commiting for corners - look at american cars, leafs have been used on some ridiculously quick cars. (which corner poorly but thats beside the point)

Jason B wrote: look at american cars, leafs have been used on some ridiculously quick cars. (which corner poorly but thats beside the point)

Your knowledge of the American automotive industry is stupendous......

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BnmOIFTJL5U

Seriously, you should have your own show on tv.

How's ya oinker going??????

thanks, I do consider myself a bit of an expert on american cars

the oinker is taking longer due to the ineptitude of a previous owner who has some interesting ideas about most mechanical stuff and how to attach it together... - hopefully next weekend should see it roadworthy

hows oop north, suppose you're revelling in the minor fuel price dip what with that 5mpg yank tank wonder of yours

Jason B wrote:thanks, I do consider myself a bit of an expert on american cars

You're quite welcome the truth will always be out.

Jason B wrote:the oinker is taking longer due to the ineptitude of a previous owner who has some interesting ideas about most mechanical stuff and how to attach it together... - hopefully next weekend should see it roadworthy

Do you want me to send somemore sticky tape and cable ties?????????

Jason B wrote:hows oop north,

Cold.Thanks for your concern.I'll toss an extra log on the burner and drink some tatty shine.

Jaosn B wrote:suppose you're revelling in the minor fuel price dip what with that 5mpg yank tank wonder of yours

My smugness levels are relatively high,must confess.
Then again I'm always happy.

Jason B wrote:(which corner poorly but thats beside the point)

...or is it? I plan to live...

cheers

James

At the end of the day, if you want to go round corners really fast, buy a lotus exige. If you want a fast 360, accept the shortcomings and just skid a lot.

filthyjohn wrote:At the end of the day, if you want to go round corners really fast, buy a lotus exige. If you want a fast 360, accept the shortcomings and just skid a lot.

Ask Jason how well his front end turns in, and how well mine goes round corners... Combine them, and we'd have something dangerously fast!

I'm not writing off the de dion and leafs just yet...but I'm not holding out much hope that they'll be able to cope with the demands that 250+bhp will put on them. We'll see how that stuff copes with the 'usual' upgrades, and take it from there.

cheers

James

Having loads of extra power won't in itself make the car worse around corners, you'll just have to watch the entry speeds. I happen to think 300s are very tidy handling cars once they've been dropped and had some of the wallow taken out.

chris's 340 sticks to the road ridiculously well!!!! (it's actually terrifying!)

@foggy: it is beside the point because in america there are no corners, and if there were then the road would be soo wide that only a tiny amount of steering is required

FJ...well that's obvious, but I WILL want to corner faster

Jason...That's the point...I don't want something which behaves like a muscle car!

The bottom line? I don't want to have a car which is inbalanced. If it goes like an Evo in a straight line (which it pretty much will, with 1.1 tons and 250+bhp), it needs to stop like an Evo, and get reasonably close to cornering like one. That shouldn't be too hard, bearing in mind how much lighter a 360 is than an Evo. I worry about building a death-trap. To be fair to Ryan's 740, with only bigger ARBs, generic lowering springs and Bilstein shocks, it handles well enough to cope with ~300bhp...if it had an LSD and/or wider rubber...so maybe I'll be ok?

Anyway...I'll have a set of uprated leafs for the 343, at least....and probably for the 360 too. I'm not saying this is a foregone conclusion...far from it...I'm going to see how far I can get with the leaf/de dion rear end and take it from there. If it's good enough for my purposes...great! I'm just bracing myself for having to look at IRS.

cheers

James

With the amount of higher power cars that are getting built, I think you make a good point here Foggy (though maybe I have taken it to read different than you ment). How many have actually pushed a 300 hard off the public roads? This isn't a dig by any means, but when we were at Haynes, you were having issues keeping that 343 balanced round the corners with the B14, and I don't think it was the car, more your lack of experience at chucking them about. I'd like to think mine was more stable, a few people said so, but I still havn't got all the techniques I want under my belt. Watching what the 343 did as you braked mid corner and not in the straight before it made me realise actually quite how much it affected things, I've noticed a bit from inside mine, but I can't see the effects outisde whilst I'm driving!

Cornering like an Evo? Never going to happen, and thats a good thing. The only thing most of the roadtests ever slated the 340 for was it's 70's handling. This is what keeps a lot of us (well, me at least) here, it's well balanced and you can happily chuck it into a roundabout and get a bit of understeer then a bit of oversteer, all the time just playing with it. With the (very) few things I've done, I've removed that, my car will not slip a tyre now unless it's raining or I do something numptyish like braking mid corner. End result is I've got a very fast cornering car, that still rolls like anything. Who cares about roll... the only thing that will affect is if I need it to get round 2 tight corners immediately after each other, which in the real world isn't that often. Certainly it's the next thing on the list, but thats where money starts getting involved.

Why won't the car handle like an Evo? As thats a very boring fwd chassis that has been made to handle by installing various geometries, 4x4 and electronics that can only be described as magic. The control systems in there take all the fundamentals of damping thats being talked about in the damper thread, and using those same principles to "damp" fishtailing. It then becomes the ultimate end to what I'm doing to Fake, the cars removed all the fun from driving. I can't play with balancing my car anymore, which I only realised last week has for want of a word upset me. I took an MG midget out for a play, and it had that magic 70's feeling, chucked it into a roundabout and it was gorgeously skittish.

So, after that random long post of not much point...
*Best way of improving cars handling is learning to drive it. Stop spending money on bits, get to autotests/slaloms/anything. Foggy did one with the DAF guys a few months back, he'll back be up with how much fun they can be, and you will learn more about the car.
*Work out if you want fast or fun. seems they really arn't the same thing. I want to change my tyres back, but as well as going round any corner, the brakes cannot lock them in the dry. I'm not sure I can remove them for that alone.

Conclusion. Fast cars suck.